Battlefield Iraq: Why Ali (Still) Won’t Fight

[Marauder06]

Sounds about right. We can't want it more than them.

These new combat forces are supposedly in Iraq to help train Iraqi forces to secure their own country, and are not supposed to engage in combat themselves. But this begs the question, how much more “training” do Iraqi forces need? We were on the ground with them since we took over their country in 2003, and have been either training, equipping, funding, or leading them in defense of their country ever since. If weren’t able to train Iraq’s military after expending all that time and money and the efforts of tens of thousands of US military personnel, what are 1900 or so troops going to do now?

 

[Etype]

I agree to an extent, but-

- We taught them how to be cops, and at best, SWAT. We didn't teach them how to be a military.

- A lot of units, especially ISOF, are fighting their asses off and killing hordes of IS before dying in place at places like The Bayji Oil Refinery, Ramadi, Fallujah, and Rutba. Some of those places look like WWII Stalingrad.

- The corruption they are dealing with is worse than anything we can fathom as Americans.

- Being a member of the military puts their whole families at risk. The Sunnis who joined the Army from Anbar, and parts of Salahadin and Diyala provinces have suffered one (or some combination) of three fates-
1. They have been killed.
2. Their families have been killed.
3. They can no longer return home.
Again, as Americans we can't even begin to contemplate these stakes.

These articles make sense to a certain extent, but they are gross oversimplifications of the matter.

 

[Freggel]

apart from that, the senior leadership has been largely replaced by ppl on base of tribe, family or relationship with ppl in power. Not by people that can actually lead a military campaign or complex attack. I agree with the fact that they certainly try. At least ISOF is. Less positive about big army though

 

[Marauder06]

I agree to an extent, but-

- We taught them how to be cops, and at best, SWAT. We didn't teach them how to be a military.

- A lot of units, especially ISOF, are fighting their asses off and killing hordes of IS before dying in place at places like The Bayji Oil Refinery, Ramadi, Fallujah, and Rutba. Some of those places look like WWII Stalingrad.

- The corruption they are dealing with is worse than anything we can fathom as Americans.

- Being a member of the military puts their whole families at risk. The Sunnis who joined the Army from Anbar, and parts of Salahadin and Diyala provinces have suffered one (or some combination) of three fates-
1. They have been killed.
2. Their families have been killed.
3. They can no longer return home.
Again, as Americans we can't even begin to contemplate these stakes.

These articles make sense to a certain extent, but they are gross oversimplifications of the matter.

We taught them how to be a military. They just chose not to learn. They continue to fail to learn... and so do we.

The U.S. Military’s Poor Record Training the Iraqi Army — War Is Boring

Iraq forces struggling despite U.S. military training

‘Lack of Iraqis’: 17-month US effort failed to retrain Iraqi army

Of course we can "contemplate these stakes." You just did a good job of explaining them to us. I don't need to have a baby to understand childbirth is hard, and I don't need to be an Iraqi to know that being in the Army there is risky.

 

[Etype]

We taught them how to be a military. They just chose not to learn. They continue to fail to learn... and so do we.

The U.S. Military’s Poor Record Training the Iraqi Army — War Is Boring

Iraq forces struggling despite U.S. military training

‘Lack of Iraqis’: 17-month US effort failed to retrain Iraqi army

Of course we can "contemplate these stakes." You just did a good job of explaining them to us. I don't need to have a baby to understand childbirth is hard, and I don't need to be an Iraqi to know that being in the Army there is risky.

The title of the first article suggests we didn't do a good job training them. Then goes on to suggest figures like, 'only 30,000 IS fighters.' Which is a GROSS underestimate. The link to the supposed CIA citation goes to an Al Arabiya English page.

The second article talks about Iraqis having issues during a live fire exercise. This year, US soldiers have been shot and so has a helicopter during supposed blank fire exercises. This article also cites the completely bogus notion that Shia militias are somehow leading the fight- that is the IRGC, not Iraqi militias.

The last article cites the lack of available recruits- no one wants to serve corrupt flag officers or elected leadership. This author also highlights his lack of familiarity by crediting Iranian UW forces (and in many cases, plain old Iranian soldiers) to being a "militia."