Be a Marine Spy?

goon175 said:
I like how they try to attract people to the MOS by talking about relaxed grooming standards and not wearing a uniform... you know.. because the person that lat moves to that MOS for those reasons are exactly the type of mature Marines they are looking for....
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Uh...670-1 wasn't modified for the Regiment? :-"
 
The Corps is looking for mature Marines who are comfortable interacting with strangers, without a lot of input from leadership, to consider making the shift to intel.
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...and to do that, you're targeting E3s? :-/

“If you still want to be a Marine but hang your uniform up for a couple of years, wear a suit and grow your hair long, this career field will offer you an opportunity to do that,” Moyer said.
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I think if I were in charge of Marine Corps intel, there'd be an O6 on the top of my "list of people to choke" chart. Those are the best reasons to reclass to intel and try out for what is arguably the most complex and perilous intelligence discipline? That's like saying "join SF! Because you can... erm... because you can put your hands in your pockets!!" :thumbsdown:
 
Marauder06 said:
...and to do that, you're targeting E3s? :-/
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This is pure speculation on my part, but I believe that the relatively low rank restriction is in place so that guys in slow-promoting MOS fields (such as infantry, where it is not uncommon to EAS as an E-3 because of very high score requirements) have a chance. I will tell you that the board will not even consider anyone who is not close to their reenlistment window, so that prevents really young guys from trying out. It's absolutely a second-term MOS.

:thumbsdown: <----I can't get rid of this little smiley for some reason.
 
USMC is pretty tight on uniform and appearance, I can see Marines wanting to have a career, bit wanting a change, lack of dress right dress, etc.

Also, E3's in the USMC are nothing like E3's in any other branch. Although I am sure the USMC has there shit bag and immature LCpl's, everyone of them I've met, was a shitload more professional than many of the NCO's I've met in the Army.

I met a LCpl in Anbar Iraq, he was a Squad Leader, leading a convoy from CKV to TQ...I was blown away that an E3 would have that much responsibility.
 
JAB said:
USMC is pretty tight on uniform and appearance, I can see Marines wanting to have a career, bit wanting a change, lack of dress right dress, etc.

Also, E3's in the USMC are nothing like E3's in any other branch. Although I am sure the USMC has there shit bag and immature LCpl's, everyone of them I've met, was a shitload more professional than many of the NCO's I've met in the Army.

I met a LCpl in Anbar Iraq, he was a Squad Leader, leading a convoy from CKV to TQ...I was blown away that an E3 would have that much responsibility.
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When I was a rifle platoon commander in 2004 all of my squad leaders with E3s. It was pretty normal.
 
That's what I have heard from many current and former AD Marines. Still blows my mind, we don't trust an E3 to be in charge of much more than a police call, and even then we normally have an E4 to supervise.

I never understood why the Army has 4 enlisted ranks dedicated to not being in charge of anything, a bunch of over paid privates.

Not that I think an E3 should be a SL, TL sure but SL, is a bit much IMO. Either way, its working for you guys, apparently.
 
goon175 said:
No offense, but I think using E3's as SL's is getting away with highway robbery on the USMC's part.
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When I was a 2Lt, it was uncommon for a Marine to make E4 on his first enlistment. It took 6 years or more to make E5. Most of my E3 squad leaders were on their 2nd or 3d combat deployment. Keep in mind that I have served 14 months as a Battalion operations officer for a Reconnaissance battalion as an 03 Captain with over 11 year of military service. Promotions are slow all over unfortunately. It comes with being a smaller service. Almost all of my Navy peers from the Naval Academy were promoted awhile ago.
 
Teufel said:
When I was a 2Lt, it was uncommon for a Marine to make E4 on his first enlistment. It took 6 years or more to make E5. Most of my E3 squad leaders were on their 2nd or 3d combat deployment. Keep in mind that I have served 14 months as a Battalion operations officer for a Reconnaissance battalion as an 03 Captain with over 11 year of military service. Promotions are slow all over unfortunately. It comes with being a smaller service. Almost all of my Navy peers from the Naval Academy were promoted awhile ago.
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I believe you, trust me. I'll never forget the look on our GFC's face (a major) when we did a battlefield handover to a Marine platoon in Iraq. He asked where the PSG or PL was, and an E-4 came up to talk to him. He said "No, I need the guy that's in charge" and the young Marine said "Yeah, that's me Sir".

Regardless, I think it's taking advantage of guys. If you have that level of responsibility, you should be fairly compensated for it. Also, it screws those guys over when they get out and are competing for jobs with other guys who out rank them but had less responsibility in the service. I'm not saying all the branches need to have the same rate of promotion, and I would even agree with the argument that the Army promotes a bit too fast in some cases, but if a position is coded for an NCO, than that branch has an obligation to man that position accordingly.
 
Yeah I agree with goon on that one, if the slot calls for X rank, the person filling the slot should be +/- 1 to that rank, and if held for 90 days or more, should be promoted and paid correctly.

I had a squad as an E4 and like anyone else filled PSG when tasked as Jr, but I couldn't imagine a E4 running a platoon for a deployment. Holy shit...
 
goon175 said:
I believe you, trust me. I'll never forget the look on our GFC's face (a major) when we did a battlefield handover to a Marine platoon in Iraq. He asked where the PSG or PL was, and an E-4 came up to talk to him. He said "No, I need the guy that's in charge" and the young Marine said "Yeah, that's me Sir".

Regardless, I think it's taking advantage of guys. If you have that level of responsibility, you should be fairly compensated for it. Also, it screws those guys over when they get out and are competing for jobs with other guys who out rank them but had less responsibility in the service. I'm not saying all the branches need to have the same rate of promotion, and I would even agree with the argument that the Army promotes a bit too fast in some cases, but if a position is coded for an NCO, than that branch has an obligation to man that position accordingly.
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What Teufel said is correct. An E-4 in the Marines is a Cpl. This is an NCO rank in the Corps (last I checked).
However, I agree that the Corps does not like to promote.
In my experience, this has been one of the reasons why my buds left to enter another service. We'd compare time in service and current job and our colleagues would be a pay grade above.
 
goon175 said:
I believe you, trust me. I'll never forget the look on our GFC's face (a major) when we did a battlefield handover to a Marine platoon in Iraq. He asked where the PSG or PL was, and an E-4 came up to talk to him. He said "No, I need the guy that's in charge" and the young Marine said "Yeah, that's me Sir".

Regardless, I think it's taking advantage of guys. If you have that level of responsibility, you should be fairly compensated for it. Also, it screws those guys over when they get out and are competing for jobs with other guys who out rank them but had less responsibility in the service. I'm not saying all the branches need to have the same rate of promotion, and I would even agree with the argument that the Army promotes a bit too fast in some cases, but if a position is coded for an NCO, than that branch has an obligation to man that position accordingly.
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Oh I 100% agree with you. A squad leader is supposed to be a sergeant. We can't promote guys internally though. I don't know if the Army can. We also fire guys who can't hack it too. I had a sergeant who had recently changed his MOS from aviation mechanic to infantry, he lasted three combat patrols before he was replaced by a corporal. I have seen all of my peers from Westpoint and Annapolis promote to 04 long before I will. I have been selected for Major but it usually takes us 1-2 years to actually pin on the rank. So as a result the majority of the battalion operations officers in the 1st Marine Division, to include myself, are still Captains. It's frustrating so I can imagine how the young LCpl feels. It has to do with how many personnel at any given rank can exist at any given time. My promotion is delayed because a lot of terminal Majors don't want to retire. So they are clogging up the machine. You guys can weather that to some degree because you have such a large organization. As our numbers fall from 202,000 to 176,000 to possible 150,000 we will see promotions get even slower. It used to take five to seven years for a Marine to get promoted to Sergeant and 8 to 10 years for Staff Sergeant. We are going back to those days.
 
Teufel said:
Oh I 100% agree with you. A squad leader is supposed to be a sergeant. We can't promote guys internally though. I don't know if the Army can. We also fire guys who can't hack it too. I had a sergeant who had recently changed his MOS from aviation mechanic to infantry, he lasted three combat patrols before he was replaced by a corporal. I have seen all of my peers from Westpoint and Annapolis promote to 04 long before I will. I have been selected for Major but it usually takes us 1-2 years to actually pin on the rank. So as a result the majority of the battalion operations officers in the 1st Marine Division, to include myself, are still Captains. It's frustrating so I can imagine how the young LCpl feels. It has to do with how many personnel at any given rank can exist at any given time. My promotion is delayed because a lot of terminal Majors don't want to retire. So they are clogging up the machine. You guys can weather that to some degree because you have such a large organization. As our numbers fall from 202,000 to 176,000 to possible 150,000 we will see promotions get even slower. It used to take five to seven years for a Marine to get promoted to Sergeant and 8 to 10 years for Staff Sergeant. We are going back to those days.
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Yeah I don't doubt that it is a problem at branch/DoD level, I'm sure guys at your level want nothing more than to give their guys the credit and pay they deserve. For the Army, we can make a Sergeant or SSG promotable at the battalion level, but then it is on big army to release points every month and you either make it or you don't which decides if you will pin on the following month. Some guys in certain MOS's will sit in a promotable status for literally years. As far as moving a guy from E-2 to E-3 or E-3 to E-4, that can be done at the company level with the stroke of a pen ( or I guess the stroke of a key with a CAC card these days...).
 
E1-3 is company, E4-6 is Btn and E7-9 is DA.

The Army NG promotes by slot E5 and up, and that is why you can see an E4 stuck for decades. A lot of broke dicks and sand baggers hold a rank (I.e. slot) even though they don't fill the duties of the slot or have been in the position for decades. This really screws NG soldiers when it comes to advancement.

A up or out system would work, but that would drop retention like crazy as well.
 
JAB said:
That's what I have heard from many current and former AD Marines. Still blows my mind, we don't trust an E3 to be in charge of much more than a police call, and even then we normally have an E4 to supervise.

I never understood why the Army has 4 enlisted ranks dedicated to not being in charge of anything, a bunch of over paid privates.

Not that I think an E3 should be a SL, TL sure but SL, is a bit much IMO. Either way, its working for you guys, apparently.
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Desert Storm, I was a corporal running a radio retrans site between Khafji and Saffaniyah (sp?). Right next door was an Army radio retrans team doing the same job, run by a SSG.
 

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