C.I.A. Is Said to Have Bought and Destroyed Iraqi Chemical Weapons

[pardus]

Or in other words the NY Times eats crow!

This has been common knowledge for anyone who bothered to do a fucking google search!
Liberals need to collectively hang their heads in shame.

Pres Bush probably has a wry smile on his face now.
WMD's found, Obama sending troops back into Iraq. Oh how the wheel turns!

The Central Intelligence Agency, working with American troops during the occupation of Iraq, repeatedly purchased nerve-agent rockets from a secretive Iraqi seller, part of a previously undisclosed effort to ensure that old chemical weapons remaining in Iraq did not fall into the hands of terrorists or militant groups, according to current and former American officials.

The extraordinary arms purchase plan, known as Operation Avarice, began in 2005 and continued into 2006, and the American military deemed it a nonproliferation success. It led to the United States’ acquiring and destroying at least 400 Borak rockets, one of the internationally condemned chemical weapons that Saddam Hussein’s Baathist government manufactured in the 1980s but that were not accounted for by United Nations inspections mandated after the 1991 Persian Gulf war.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/16/w...ght-and-destroyed-iraqi-chemical-weapons.html

 

[racing_kitty]

Just like that yellowcake uranium that wasn't actually there for me to escort out of Muthaana.

 

[Viper1]

At least I know now the death of my friends was worth it. My friends did not die for a lie.

Rest in peace, Mike Cerrone, John Dennison, Garrison Avery, Ben Britt, Major Hecker, Jake Fritz, Neale Shank, Phil Neele, and Tommy Martin

http://www.west-point.org/users/usma2004/60468/ LT Mike Cerrone, college roommate
http://arlingtoncemetery.net/jrdennison.htm John Dennison, company mate
http://projects.militarytimes.com/valor/army-1st-lt-garrison-c-avery/1512590 Garrison Avery, company mate
http://apps.westpointaog.org/Memorials/Article/60428/ Ben Britt, company mate
http://apps.westpointaog.org/Memorials/Article/48266/ Major William Hecker, English instructor
http://projects.militarytimes.com/valor/army-1st-lt-jacob-n-fritz/2507082 Jake Fritz, classmate
http://apps.westpointaog.org/Memorials/Article/62039/ Neale Shank, classmate
http://apps.westpointaog.org/Memorials/Article/61896/ Phil Neele, Ranger classmate 501-06
http://apps.westpointaog.org/Memorials/Article/61822/ Tommy Martin, Ranger squadmate, 501-06

 

[pardus]

At least I know now the death of my friends was worth it. My friends did not die for a lie.

None of them did.

I thank, and salute them all for their sacrifice to ensure our continued freedom.

 

[DA SWO]

Just like that yellowcake uranium that wasn't actually there for me to escort out of Muthaana.

Yeah, we should talk about this one next time we meet.

 

[AWP]

This story is bullshit, not for what it contains, but for what it doesn't contain.

I have no doubt this story is correct and zero reason to doubt RK.

Why hide this information? We didn't want the insurgents to know? Because all of these WMD's were seemingly known of and controlled by a single Iraqi POC in every case? The program more or less ended in '06 and we left Iraq in '11, but no one could/ would say anything and it was only the hue and cry over medical care that caused people to speak out?

THAT's why it is bullshit. How many families died thinking their loved ones died in a futile war predicated on bullshit? How many veterans killed themselves over the same thoughts? The Bush administration was so hellbent on going to war it refused to justify it when it could? The moral conscience of the participants kept them silent all of these years, but medical care caused them to speak?

Those are the reasons this story is bullshit; the unanswered questions.

 

[Ranger Psych]

While I can't support the military's end of unpreparedness with regards to WMD-UXO and the subsequent lack of treatment of patients.... at the same time.... I can also to some extent think of some reasons to in the end, not want to disclose that it's there.

During the ongoing operations, being willing to disclose that some of the stockpiles that may have been abandoned by the Iraqi's on the drive into Baghdad etc may/were in fact WMD, would have lent legitimacy to the operations but severe threat to the same operations due to hadji going COOL LETS FUCKING MAKE NERVE GAS IED's. Etc. So, STFU was in effect.

Bush being prior military with a semblance of OPSEC understanding both from his own service and his pop's various shit (and with being the president to boot...), acting as a good frontman for the band, took the beating in the public eye so that Joe didn't get fucked up 10 times worse.

That, plus back when Saddam was "Neato for NATO", specifically when he was thumping on Iran.... there's quite a few foreign flags that were part of the invasion/occupation task forces that helped provide nuts and bolts for the erector sets he built... Not exactly something that anyone in power specifically wanted to be thrown onto their plate. Enough political scapegoating etc as it was with what was happening to throw that into the mix.

Edited to rephrase, spell, make words actually have all their letters, etc...

 

[DA SWO]

While I can't support the military's end of unpreparedness with regards to WMD-UXO and the subsequent lack of treatment of patients.... at the same time.... I can also to some extent think of some reasons to in the end, not want to disclose that it's there.

During the ongoing operations, being willing to disclose that some of the stockpiles that may have been abandoned by the Iraqi's on the drive into Baghdad etc may/were in fact WMD, would have lent legitimacy to the operations but severe threat to the same operations due to hadji going COOL LETS FUCKING MAKE NERVE GAS IED's. Etc. So, STFU was in effect.

Bush being prior military with a semblance of OPSEC understanding both from his own service and his pop's various shit (and with being the president to boot...), acting as a good frontman for the band, took the beating in the public eye so that Joe didn't get fucked up 10 times worse.

That, plus back when Saddam was "Neato for NATO", specifically when he was thumping on Iran.... there's quite a few foreign flags that were part of the invasion/occupation task forces that helped provide nuts and bolts for the erector sets he built... Not exactly something that anyone in power specifically wanted to be thrown onto their plate. Enough political scapegoating etc as it was with what was happening to throw that into the mix.

Edited to rephrase, spell, make words actually have all their letters, etc...

Bold face part, that's what we were told in FOBBIT-ville, they didn't want the insurgents thinking stuff might be available and the media trumpeting "No WMD's!!!" added to the OPSEC of the mission.

 

[pardus]

This story is bullshit, not for what it contains, but for what it doesn't contain.

I have no doubt this story is correct and zero reason to doubt RK.

Why hide this information? We didn't want the insurgents to know? Because all of these WMD's were seemingly known of and controlled by a single Iraqi POC in every case? The program more or less ended in '06 and we left Iraq in '11, but no one could/ would say anything and it was only the hue and cry over medical care that caused people to speak out?

THAT's why it is bullshit. How many families died thinking their loved ones died in a futile war predicated on bullshit? How many veterans killed themselves over the same thoughts? The Bush administration was so hellbent on going to war it refused to justify it when it could? The moral conscience of the participants kept them silent all of these years, but medical care caused them to speak?

Those are the reasons this story is bullshit; the unanswered questions.

Agreed, to a certain degree.
I've always had a problem with people who look for justification/meaning/vindication for their "war" (Steven Speilberg/Saving PVT Ryan (go fuck yourself)).

You go to war because it's your fucking job. You die because it's your fucking job. You volunteered, and even if you didn't your elected govt told you to go, stop thinking about it, it is what it is, get on with it.
Yes there are PLENTY of things to bitch about, pay/gear/benefits/VA etc... But the "reason" why you fought in a particular conflict? Bullshit.

Why does anyone in uniform care what the war is about? You want me to fight here? Roger, you want me to fight there? Roger.
We don't enlist for a cause/conflict. We enlist for the country, what happens after that is out of our hands and should be meaningless.

It's a societal thing I know, a weakness in the population that pervades the Military. It needs to be stamped out.

 

[AWP]

Why does anyone in uniform care what the war is about? You want me to fight here? Roger, you want me to fight there? Roger.
We don't enlist for a cause/conflict. We enlist for the country, what happens after that is out of our hands and should be meaningless.

It's a societal thing I know, a weakness in the population that pervades the Military. It needs to be stamped out.

It isn't a weakness. You're talking about blind obedience which is a very bad thing. Within reason you shut up and get on with the job, but blind obedience? Maybe I'm over simplifying your argument...I don't know, but we have to question to a certain extent what we're doing and why.

I understand not releasing the details while operations are ongoing, but one operation comes out now? Like I posted elsewhere on this board, we need to stop being cowards. Stand up or follow your NDA's. NOW details are leaked and people are still hiding? "Hey, Iraq was totally justified" should be screamed from the top of every building in the land. Instead we have "Psst. Hey buddy, wanna' hear a story?"

 

[pardus]

It isn't a weakness. You're talking about blind obedience which is a very bad thing. Within reason you shut up and get on with the job, but blind obedience? Maybe I'm over simplifying your argument...I don't know, but we have to question to a certain extent what we're doing and why.

I understand not releasing the details while operations are ongoing, but one operation comes out now? Like I posted elsewhere on this board, we need to stop being cowards. Stand up or follow your NDA's. NOW details are leaked and people are still hiding? "Hey, Iraq was totally justified" should be screamed from the top of every building in the land. Instead we have "Psst. Hey buddy, wanna' hear a story?"

I disagree. As Soldiers (etc...) it's our job to do our job, regardless of what it is. As long as it's a lawful order we just need to do it. Sure we can question the details of the plan, but It's not our job to question what conflict we are involved with or how it's conducted.
That is the public's job, not ours. Watada and Bergdahl think I'm wrong though.

 

[Ranger Psych]

There's a difference between questioning the civilian leadership who makes the decision to go to war, and questioning the officers and noncoms appointed over you.

 

[AWP]

There's a difference between questioning the civilian leadership who makes the decision to go to war, and questioning the officers and noncoms appointed over you.

That's what leads to war crimes. That's what led soldiers to confiscate weapons during Katrina.

I disagree. As Soldiers (etc...) it's our job to do our job, regardless of what it is. As long as it's a lawful order we just need to do it. Sure we can question the details of the plan, but It's not our job to question what conflict we are involved with or how it's conducted.
That is the public's job, not ours. Watada and Bergdahl think I'm wrong though.

Which is the point I'm making.

 

[Ranger Psych]

That's what leads to war crimes. That's what led soldiers to confiscate weapons during Katrina.

I get that. Questioning =/= disobeying an illegal order. I'm not questioning that shit, I'm flat out refusing at that point.

 

[CDG]

@pardus and @Freefalling, I think you guys are saying the same thing and I agree with both of you. When I was younger I had much more of a problem with not questioning things and I got my peepee smacked a few times for thinking I was smarter, or had a better idea, than the NCOs I worked for. I had a bad attitude and was out of line. pardus is right, we volunteer and from that point forward it doesn't matter where we go to war or who it's with. The line is obviously drawn at unlawful orders, i.e. My Lai, weapon confiscation from American citizens, etc. Beyond that though, it is the public's job and Congress's job to call bullshit if we're engaged somewhere we shouldn't be. I don't think any solider/sailor/airman/or Marine should place the burden on themselves of deciding if it's worth it or not. You do the job to the best of your ability and do everything you can to bring as many other servicemembers home as possible. Isn't that meaning enough?

 

[Gunz]

At least I know now the death of my friends was worth it. My friends did not die for a lie.

Even if there had never been a shred of evidence of chemical weapons found in OIF, your brothers did not die in vain. The Iraqi's may not appreciate it yet, but you and the others who fought there delivered them from a genocidal regime, killed tens of thousands of jihadist terrorists and introduced the seeds of democracy and equality into a culture that had never known them and into a region that sorely needed them. Some day in the future they may just figure out what America gave them.

And our involvement probably helped to contribute to the rise of Arab Spring. If any region ever needed a cleansing revolution, it's the ME. As fucked up as things are right now over there, I think ultimately, in 5, 10, 15 years, when the smoke clears, the world may be a safer and more decent place.

 

[Gunz]

You go to war because it's your fucking job. You die because it's your fucking job...

Amen, when they tell you to take the hill, you say "Aye aye, sir," and you take the fucking hill.

But...when somebody orders you to shoot the children, you have a duty to refuse to carry out an illegal order according to the Uniform Code of Military Justice.