California preparing to go to war with the NCAA?

ThunderHorse said:
Destroying amateurism as it stands is really a stupid fucking idea. The NCAA scholarship model has taken hundreds of thousands of students providing them a path to become professionals.
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It is not a binary assessment, the NCAA is also a douchebag organization with a lot of BS rules and petty conditions to retain scholarships. The NCAA does some good, but also does a lot of damage.
 
ThunderHorse said:
Destroying amateurism as it stands is really a stupid fucking idea. The NCAA scholarship model has taken hundreds of thousands of students providing them a path to become professionals.
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Why is it a “stupid fucking idea”? How is it negatively affecting athletes and the education system? Any sort of elaboration is nice.
 
I think in the NBA you can't enter the draft until you're out of high school for at last a year. The NFL is...two years?
 
NFL is 3 years, so when you hear about a "Sophomore" entering the NFL, they're actually a Junior who redshirted one year.
 
I'm on the fence about paying student athletes. On the one hand, if they are a scholarship player, that's nearly $75k over four years at a state school they are receiving. But, what if they wanted to be a non-scholarship player and collect a weekly check from a booster? There's no harm in betting on yourself to be great. That would free up another scholarship for another player who otherwise wouldn't be receiving one.
 
Devildoc said:
It is not a binary assessment, the NCAA is also a douchebag organization with a lot of BS rules and petty conditions to retain scholarships. The NCAA does some good, but also does a lot of damage.
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The Scholarship model has been the second best thing for changing the socio-economic status since the GI Bill. Full Scholarship Athletes don't need anything, seriously. They get a stipend, full cost of attendance and meals. I really don't care about them...but the soccer player on the 25% scholarship it sucks.

We'll see how this goes, but destroying the model is a bad idea. Because when that happens, the NCAA will move to a different model (get rid of the sliding scale) and only recruit athletes who can qualify academically.
 
So, question for proponents, let's look at the next hypothetical for CA schools:

What if the NCAA boots all the CA from the association/bars them from competing with NCAA schools?

This is a legit possibility if NCAA wants to dig in. CA would have to create it's own league.

If you're an athlete, not just the 1% in DI football or men's basketball but any other sport (DI, DII, or DIII, scholarship or not), do you stay at a CA school knowing the following:
A) you're not likely to make any other endorsement money
B) knowing you can't compete against any other NCAA member schools
- or -
do you look for a transfer out of CA?

The next move in this game is huge with some potentially significant consequences.
 
ThunderHorse said:
The Scholarship model has been the second best thing for changing the socio-economic status since the GI Bill. Full Scholarship Athletes don't need anything, seriously. They get a stipend, full cost of attendance and meals. I really don't care about them...but the soccer player on the 25% scholarship it sucks.

We'll see how this goes, but destroying the model is a bad idea. Because when that happens, the NCAA will move to a different model (get rid of the sliding scale) and only recruit athletes who can qualify academically.
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I'm not a big fan of athletic scholarships, IF they do not qualify academically. We all know that there's school's out there, some of them top five football teams, who have players who come in who can't spell cat if you don't spot them 'C' and 'T'.

I'm all for helping people get an education and we know that 99% of the people who get athletic scholarships won't play professional sports.

That said, they are strong arm organization like the mafia. They have some truly shitty and stupid rules that are nonsensical and do nothing but hurt the individual and the school.

As for all of this argument about likeness, I would like to see the NCAA step up to the plate and say schools can't use an individual's likeness. You may use their number, but you can't use their name on the back of any Jersey or make any profit from their name.
 
Blizzard said:
So, question for proponents, let's look at the next hypothetical for CA schools:

What if the NCAA boots all the CA from the association/bars them from competing with NCAA schools?

This is a legit possibility if NCAA wants to dig in. CA would have to create it's own league.

If you're an athlete, not just the 1% in DI football or men's basketball but any other sport (DI, DII, or DIII, scholarship or not), do you stay at a CA school knowing the following:
A) you're not likely to make any other endorsement money
B) knowing you can't compete against any other NCAA member schools
- or -
do you look for a transfer out of CA?

The next move in this game is huge with some potentially significant consequences.
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they have two choices, California schools can align with other school that might be fed up with the NCAA bullshit and create a separate entity, or athletes left to transfer to other schools.

let's face it, California schools aren't going to be in the top five in just about any revenue sport, let alone compete for a national championship. If I was an athlete I would transfer out.
 
ThunderHorse said:
California schools wanted nothing to do with this.
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Do you have any links? Being on the right coast, it's not huge news, so lacking the 'local impact.'

There can be a middle ground, and I know from the article the NCAA is working on that. If they can hammer out some compromise, cool.
 
Devildoc said:
Do you have any links? Being on the right coast, it's not huge news, so lacking the 'local impact.'

There can be a middle ground, and I know from the article the NCAA is working on that. If they can hammer out some compromise, cool.
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California passes bill allowing athletes to be paid for name, image and likeness

Here you go. Currently in an NCAA compliance course and we've been talking about this bill for three weeks.

The NCAA has a working group and ad-hoc committee trying to get legislation (within the NCAA) to establish athletes ability to do Name-Image-Likeness. But the NCAA members will not pay-to-play. When you look at the benefits that athletes get at most major schools, even only partial scholarship folks: Career Mentors, Tutors, Meals, World Class training and recovery. A degree and network that enables them to move forward.

At ASU we've designed our program to effectively graduate athletes within 3 years allowing them to leave school early for a professional league or to start Graduate school while still on scholarship.
 
More schools are developing fast-track degrees for athletes who may go pro early. Of all sports this is most impactful on baseball, but basketball isn't too far behind. Baseball is the 'tweeners' this can really help: college sophomores or juniors who go in the draft but end up making $20K/year in the minors. Most basketball and football players who leave early get a fat contract, and while some do finish their degree, there's no financial incentive to do it.

I think--I know--it can happen (permissive language to allow student-athletes to cash in on use of likeness/image). But getting the NCAA to give up any control is like pulling teeth from a chicken. All universities/colleges that field NCAA teams need to have an intervention with the NCAA: some of the rules are tyrannical and bullshit and make no sense; and many are there to protect the institution, not the individual. There's a reason most university athletic departments have several full-time compliance personnel.
 
Devildoc said:
More schools are developing fast-track degrees for athletes who may go pro early. Of all sports this is most impactful on baseball, but basketball isn't too far behind. Baseball is the 'tweeners' this can really help: college sophomores or juniors who go in the draft but end up making $20K/year in the minors. Most basketball and football players who leave early get a fat contract, and while some do finish their degree, there's no financial incentive to do it.

I think--I know--it can happen (permissive language to allow student-athletes to cash in on use of likeness/image). But getting the NCAA to give up any control is like pulling teeth from a chicken. All universities/colleges that field NCAA teams need to have an intervention with the NCAA: some of the rules are tyrannical and bullshit and make no sense; and many are there to protect the institution, not the individual. There's a reason most university athletic departments have several full-time compliance personnel.
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There really isn't an intervention with the NCAA. The NCAA is the schools themselves. The policies are set by the committees which are populated by University Presidents and Athletic Directors which are are elected by the rest of the members. It's not just some whilly nilly hammer of an organization.
 
ThunderHorse said:
There really isn't an intervention with the NCAA. The NCAA is the schools themselves. The policies are set by the committees which are populated by University Presidents and Athletic Directors which are are elected by the rest of the members. It's not just some whilly nilly hammer of an organization.
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OK, that's nice in theory, but we all know that's not how it works. It's like saying the elected officials represent the people. It's what the textbooks say, but that's not really how it happens. The policies are largely set up by the power brokers; there's a reason the college football playoffs are biased toward certain conferences. There is a huge disconnect between what the NCAA is supposed to do, and what they do do. The colleges are letting the lunatics run the asylum.
 
ThunderHorse said:
The CFP is a wholly independent and for profit organization separate from the NCAA. Like the BCS, it is an invitational.
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But the people in charge are the same ones who run the NCAA.... OK then, use the NCAA bball tourney in March (trademarked March Madness).....

I know you think (or at least how I am reading it) the NCAA is some sort of all-protecting, benevolent organization who has everyone's best interests at heart. I absolutely think they think they do, but they suffer cognitive dissonance because they do not. Plenty of individual student-athletes and colleges who get the benefit of the doubt or unduly fucked as examples.

Granted I have a bias as having worked at a tutor for the athletic department at two universities, and with medical staff with one of them, so my opinion is mostly formed from what I have read and what I have seen. Your mileage may vary and that's OK.

Edited to add, we may not come to agreement on this. That's OK. We can declare a modus vivendi and drive on.
 
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