What's Marshall Law?
Civil-Military Divide
- Thread starter Marauder06
- Start date
Confederate Son
Unverified
I don't give most civilians enough credit to have a intellectual enough of a conversation with themselves to arrive at the thought that the possibility exits they may one day be under Marshall Law. Your average American these days cares more about what's happening on American Idol than what's actually happening on America. To me it's not so much a divide as in a rift..as it is a disconnect.. as in they don't have a freakn clue. Unless you have a close family member serving, you're oblivious to what being a professional soldier really means. Especially after 9/11.
I will admit I could be dead balls wrong, but it seems to me support for the Professional Soldier is as high as it's ever been when you look at the number of Associations and Foundations geared towards supporting the Fallen or helping Warriors transition. I spend allllot of time watching the Military Channel, browsing forums such as this one or reading books written by your peers or those fortunate enough to be allowed "inside". My judgement may be impaired.
The GP however does not have a clue.. but they don't have a clue about much so it's not just a Military thing. I hope that each and every one of you know however that regardless of the GP's ignorance there's a segment out there who not only supports you to the fullest, but would lay down our lives to support YOU as well.
I will admit I could be dead balls wrong, but it seems to me support for the Professional Soldier is as high as it's ever been when you look at the number of Associations and Foundations geared towards supporting the Fallen or helping Warriors transition. I spend allllot of time watching the Military Channel, browsing forums such as this one or reading books written by your peers or those fortunate enough to be allowed "inside". My judgement may be impaired.
The GP however does not have a clue.. but they don't have a clue about much so it's not just a Military thing. I hope that each and every one of you know however that regardless of the GP's ignorance there's a segment out there who not only supports you to the fullest, but would lay down our lives to support YOU as well.
Apparently a comic book hero from the 80's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshal_Law_(comics)
Or a character from the game Tekken.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Law_(Tekken)
The divide is huge up here, at least in my general area. A good chunk of people up here have the idea that the USMC is an SAS type unit and all we are is strictly peace keepers. Doesn't help when our country was run by passive pussies in the not too distant past that degraded our Armed Forces. We also should be doing a ton more to get involved in local communities.
Short Round
Verified Military
I had the immense pleasure of being seated with a self proclaimed "intellectual" on a flight from San Diego to DC while traveling to FWIC in Quantico. In the spirit of polite conversation I intially entertained his thinly veiled bragging over his cultural post graduate work with Kent State.
This lasted roughly twenty minutes at which point he finally thought to ask what my name was/ what I did. Attempting to avoid further explanation I simply said that I was active duty Marine Corps and was en route to a formal school in Virginia. This was my first mistake. What followed was a one way conversation peppered with statements resembling "no offense" and "it's just my opinion but...". He commenced to share how he thought it ridiculous that we needed so many different branches of a military, why the GI Bill/ TA programs were the "anchor dragging the country to the bottom", and how we needed to trim the fat ( in refrence to "jet carriers", large "war fighter planes", and other techonolgies I assume he saw on Modern Marvels).
At this juncture it became very clear to me that to further discuss the military would certainly only invite more excellent monolouges so I attempted to redirect our ship to the safe port of college. In an effort to find common ground I shared that I was taking a class on cultural anthropolgy through a local community college aboard Camp Pendleton. This was mistake number two. I was immediately given a hip pocket class on "how real college works". After learning my lesson my new professor once again returned to sharing his exploits and educating me on the "real tolls" of the "Bush Wars". Eventually I politely excused myself to my ipod for the remainder of the flight so as to reflect on all that I had learned.
I truly believe that the divide between the civillain world and our military community is a rift that is only getting bigger because of people like him. I respect everyone I meet until proven otherwise because this is what the military has taught me. I work hard towards my goals and I never take opportunities for granted because I appreciate what the military has given me. This man immediatly assumed that I was an inferior individual, someone to pity and look down on and yet he knew nothing about myself or my community. Our values were simply too far apart to have any effective communication. While this was an isolated incident in my life it has only served to strenghten my opinion that the values of our military make us different people and that this is why the rift with our own society exists.
This lasted roughly twenty minutes at which point he finally thought to ask what my name was/ what I did. Attempting to avoid further explanation I simply said that I was active duty Marine Corps and was en route to a formal school in Virginia. This was my first mistake. What followed was a one way conversation peppered with statements resembling "no offense" and "it's just my opinion but...". He commenced to share how he thought it ridiculous that we needed so many different branches of a military, why the GI Bill/ TA programs were the "anchor dragging the country to the bottom", and how we needed to trim the fat ( in refrence to "jet carriers", large "war fighter planes", and other techonolgies I assume he saw on Modern Marvels).
At this juncture it became very clear to me that to further discuss the military would certainly only invite more excellent monolouges so I attempted to redirect our ship to the safe port of college. In an effort to find common ground I shared that I was taking a class on cultural anthropolgy through a local community college aboard Camp Pendleton. This was mistake number two. I was immediately given a hip pocket class on "how real college works". After learning my lesson my new professor once again returned to sharing his exploits and educating me on the "real tolls" of the "Bush Wars". Eventually I politely excused myself to my ipod for the remainder of the flight so as to reflect on all that I had learned.
I truly believe that the divide between the civillain world and our military community is a rift that is only getting bigger because of people like him. I respect everyone I meet until proven otherwise because this is what the military has taught me. I work hard towards my goals and I never take opportunities for granted because I appreciate what the military has given me. This man immediatly assumed that I was an inferior individual, someone to pity and look down on and yet he knew nothing about myself or my community. Our values were simply too far apart to have any effective communication. While this was an isolated incident in my life it has only served to strenghten my opinion that the values of our military make us different people and that this is why the rift with our own society exists.
Confederate Son
Unverified
I applaud your discipline Short Round... Wish I had a little more at times. I think you can chalk that up to most of you who wear the uniform know and "get it" and do not require that anyone else does. Due respect would be good though, but I guess if some are that ignorant to begin with it would be a little much to ask that they should know when it's required or deserved.
I fear my generation is only going to expand the divide. I don't think its ignorance. Ignorance is not knowing. People now don't care, they don't care to know, they don't care to learn the facts. They'll listen to what they end up hearing in passing but they wont take the time to sit down and do some real leg work to find the truth or form an opinion of their own.
The thing that's stuck with me was 9/11. Immediately after everyone was pro country and saluting our service member because 'HOLY SHIT! We really need them'. Then as the years passed and that all faded and we are right back to where we were in the 90s. Comfortable.
The thing that's stuck with me was 9/11. Immediately after everyone was pro country and saluting our service member because 'HOLY SHIT! We really need them'. Then as the years passed and that all faded and we are right back to where we were in the 90s. Comfortable.
It might be just regional, a fad, bright eyed "pre-college opinions" or something else, but I've noticed a lot more interest in the military, in males of my age group. Not necessarily aspiring to join, but I've counted more than a few people reading military related books, talking about it in a non-political/critical manner, and actually seeing it as a respectful vocation. I'd say adults are probably the worst. A lack of interest almost indefinitely results in a lack of understanding, which I would say is the driving "force" behind the divide.
I agree w/ you on the fact that my generation (late Ys/early Zs) takes a lot more interest in the military than its predecessors. I personally think that a lot of renewed interest comes from recent movies and documentaries that have made post 9/11 about the military and especially first-person shooters like Call of Duty, Medal of Honor, etc. (I know, I know, they're completely unrealistic but you have to admit they do spark interest in today's generation)
Just my .02 on the matter
Concur: And additionally the National Guard is increased its focus on DSCA operations. The Homeland Response Force was passed over by Title 10 and given to NGB about 5 years ago. There are 10, one for each FEMA Region. I was fortunate to get hired on ADOS based on my LEO experience. We conduct a lot of inter agency training. Truth be told I'm sitting in a Continuity Operations Class at the Georgia Public Safety Training Center right now along with local fire chiefs, police and the like. Bridging the gap in other words!
RetPara
SOF Support
Actually with the reduced level of overseas long tours available in the future, that may be possible.
I highly recommend reading H. R. McMasters "Dereliction of Duty" which was a study of the Joint Chiefs of Staff's failure to stop the Vietnam War and allow LBJ to run it directly. The major pertinent point to your comment is that the National Guard and Reserve force structure was changed after Vietnam. Deliberately the primary logistical and support chain was relegated to the NG with fewer combat arms units. This was done to ensure that the United States could not go to war, as it had in Vietnam, without the support of the general populace. This was evident in both DS/DS and since 9/11. I have a vivid memory of sitting in Daharan from August on watching the Army Times list all the NG and Reserve units being activated. While there plenty of logistical, maintenance, and other support units being called up from the hinter lands... what struck me was that usually half the list was Independent Truck Company, XXNG, Podunk, XX.
I strongly disagree with you on forming NG units to fit the need of the states. If the state wishes to, it can fund it's own state level militia with surplus equipment (trucks, medical, and engineer vehicles mainly) manned by volunteers. The federal dollars being expended is a less expensive way of funding an expanded Reserve capability, hence the federal hook. A intermediate solution might be to shift force structure from the NG to the Reserve. Leaving the NG a much smaller force. The disadvantage I see to the NG vs the Reserve is the state level politics that play directly into the chain of command.
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"You were in Iraq....where is that?"
"You were in a war?" "When"
"Let me tell you how I would have run the war/combat/killed bad guys/if I was a General"
:wall:
"You were in a war?" "When"
"Let me tell you how I would have run the war/combat/killed bad guys/if I was a General"
:wall:
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/16/opinion/veterans-and-white-supremacy.html?_r=0
I don't expect much from the nytimes/huffpo crowd, but here's a peak behind the curtain. While the article is poorly supported and highly bias (it is an opinion piece) the most alarming is the comment section, and what some of the "highly rated" posts entail.
Comment Section:
"Receiving military training and then serving in an actual conflict inherently teaches a person to solve problems with violence. We shouldn't be surprised that a portion of such people internalize and get stuck on that lesson. The article lists factors that bring this out, factors we should minimize. But the real cure is not to create such people in the first place. War has many costs, some of them are long delayed and indirect."
"Although a generalization, the military is a magnet for troubled kids. They go into the military less capable and often poor, and they emerge under-equipped for the real world. Their friends back on the home front have meanwhile gone to college or gained useful work experience. No wonder vets are susceptible."
I don't expect much from the nytimes/huffpo crowd, but here's a peak behind the curtain. While the article is poorly supported and highly bias (it is an opinion piece) the most alarming is the comment section, and what some of the "highly rated" posts entail.
Comment Section:
"Receiving military training and then serving in an actual conflict inherently teaches a person to solve problems with violence. We shouldn't be surprised that a portion of such people internalize and get stuck on that lesson. The article lists factors that bring this out, factors we should minimize. But the real cure is not to create such people in the first place. War has many costs, some of them are long delayed and indirect."
"Although a generalization, the military is a magnet for troubled kids. They go into the military less capable and often poor, and they emerge under-equipped for the real world. Their friends back on the home front have meanwhile gone to college or gained useful work experience. No wonder vets are susceptible."
Gotta love the NY Times. Solidifying their place as idiots in journalistic history one article at a time......
Its funny, I had a $75k a year job as a lic plumber before joining the NG. I ended up going full in on the GWOT and had to let that job go, along with my licence. Now its a royal pain in the ass to get back into plumbing and with the injuries I acquired from my service its pretty much a no-go. Besides that, before joining I was what some would call a "hell raiser" getting into bar fights was usual. What I took away from my service was not violence as a problem solving technique, although it can be appropriate at times. But more so, leadership, discipline, and ability to see and solve a problem without direction or supervision as the problem developed, not waiting for the after effects, etc. I mean those three things alone are mostly void in modern civilian sector. But I could list a few.pages of shit I learned and skills I developed that are unseen in the civilian sector.
I think its quite ignorant of people not to understand and exploit the benefits that returning veterans offer the civilian sector. I would take a 4 year service veteran over a 4 year undergraduate any day of the week...
I think its quite ignorant of people not to understand and exploit the benefits that returning veterans offer the civilian sector. I would take a 4 year service veteran over a 4 year undergraduate any day of the week...
Because the shame of not being able to keep your wife in front of the stove while barefoot and perpetually pregnant was just too much for your pretty li'l head to bear?
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I wish I could agree more.
Sometimes I don't care enough to debate with people. I don't know I think something is wrong with me.
You want to talk about "shame?" She's from Pennsylvania, the WRONG side of the Mason-Dixon.
So, I can read, I don't own slaves, and I married a Yankee?
Worst.
Native Floridian.
EVAR.
You forgot the fact you're an AWP too... shouldn't you be watching NASCAR and wrasslin gators?
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