Fighting Next to U.S. Commandos, but Without the Same Training and Gear

Ooh-Rah

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Fighting Next to U.S. Commandos, but Without the Same Training and Gear

WASHINGTON — The Army has failed to adequately train and equip the military bomb technicians and infantry troops who are increasingly accompanying American commandos on high-risk missions in war zones, according to interviews and documents obtained by The New York Times.

As the Pentagon draws down the number of troops in combat, including in Afghanistan and Syria, it is largely relying on Special Operations forces to keep up the fight. Those American commandos depend on support from remaining conventional troops for extra firepower, security and logistics.

But the documents and interviews with seven military officials show that the backup forces — including explosive ordnance disposal, or E.O.D., soldiers — often do not have the necessary gear for protection nor the same level of training as the commandos they join on Special Operations raids and patrols

@racing_kitty

I’ve attached a PDF of the article for those who do not have NYT subscription.
 

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Reads like a hit piece.



Yes, it does. How can anybody expect infantry and support people accompanying SF detachments to have the same level of training and specialized gear? It's impractical for any number of reasons. There's going to be a disparity of skill at most times, even working with host-nation counterparts.
 
Well I will agree that nod's need to be updated. Nothing wrong with the current body armor. Not sure what weapons they are talking about, maybe some units haven't gotten the Carl Gustaf yet? That is about the only weapon I can think of that would be hard to get a Fam-fire range for.

I'll call BS on the conventional Infantry slowing down an ODA. In comparison to who and doing what?
 
And not to belabor a point, but had the writer bothered to do a little research, he would've learned that foreign internal defense and unconventional warfare are SF missions...Experts in training and operating with soldiers who have very limited skills.
 
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Yes, it does. How can anybody expect infantry and support people accompanying SF detachments to have the same level of training and specialized gear? It's impractical for any number of reasons. There's going to be a disparity of skill at most times, even working with host-nation counterparts.

We started up a specialist Engineer unit for the 2000 Olympic games (Joint Incident Response Unit - JIRU), after 9/11 they converted into a similarly rolled unit named the Incident Response Regiment (IRR), several years later they found themselves with more of a green Military role and were again re-rolled/re-named into the Special Operations Engineer Regiment. They work day in and day out with 2 Commando and deploy with SASR and 2 Commando as required and I believe are also attached to TAG East in the counter terror role.
 
Having taken the time to mull it over, read it, and then observe the back-and-forth between the guys who are still in, some of the things in this article needed to be said. I hate to say it, but getting adequate gear and training is a fucking crap shoot. It was when I was in, and it looks to be the same way now.

Army EOD has been in this administrative purgatory for ages. The Navy treats their EOD guys as SOF assets and trains accordingly, and the Air Force has money, period. Army EOD, however, is basically a GWOT foster child. We get funding, but we don’t see it. Our “foster parents” are the various branches that only see the JIEDDO dollars. The engineers keep trying to absorb us, our officers fall under the logistics branch, and CBRNE’s gonna CBRN. It’s my understanding that there have been various pushes by SF to absorb EOD in past years, but FORSCOM et. al. has shot it down every time.

Right now, a lot of the bitching coming from the community is directed at 20th CBRNE. Money that should go towards EOD training and equipment gets forwarded to other aspects of the CBRN field. When someone raises hell, they get told that they have no business asking for that secret squirrel shit, so either make do with what you have or shut the fuck up and color.

Army EOD has had to deal with “make do with whatcha got” for decades. We’ve become damned good at it (there’s a reason Macgyver’s backstory included a stint as an EOD tech), so now it’s come to be expected out of the career field. Several times, I’ve heard of EOD being referred to as prima donnas and that we’re just a bunch of hopped up geardos with really big firecrackers that wanna act like SOF, so we don’t need (deserve?) that equipment. Hell, sometimes EOD leadership comes out and says “If I didn’t have it, and I made do, then you can too, fucking snowflake.” With attitudes like that, how does one expect to change the outdated MTOE’s that dictate what outdated equipment we have to beg for?

Training?? Fuhgeddaboudit. Big Army thinks that Big Army training is more than adequate for bomb jockeys to attach to SOF units. I don’t know the details regarding the palace intrigue at the time, but standing up the 28th was a giant pain in the ass, and I’ll bet it was because of training and standards. Like I said, that’s just speculation on my part. The sad part is that when EOD expanded during the surge, the plan originally was for one EOD company to support each BCT, and one company for each SFG. However, nobody actually planned for how to bring each EOD company up to the standards for those groups they’d be supporting. Apparently, Big Army Training was supposed to be good enough.

Adequate training can be had; it just takes some initiative at the company and battalion level once it’s known that an SOF support mission is coming up. The EOD ops guys have to reach out to whatever SFG they’re supporting, introduce themselves, and work a drug deal to get the kind of training they need. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it gets shot down, and the tactical knowledge becomes OJT in theater. Sometimes they find out they’re supporting SOF mere days before wheels up, because Big Army training is good enough for Big Army.

From what I’ve read, Joey and JJ weren’t killed performing RSPs; they were killed in gunfights. The SF guys know that drill, the 28th guys know that drill, but SGT. Snuffy from the 7xxth Ord Co (EOD) may very well be shit out of luck because he’s never been to a shoot house and his command just couldn’t spare the funds for him to go. His first deployment becomes his last, and we get to comfort his parents next May at the Memorial.

That’s not to say that EOD is as innocent as a babe in the woods on this. The community has its share of fat asses that would rather walk to the bar than do a 12-mile ruck march, and see no need to deviate from whatever Big Army brainwashing —oops, I mean “standards”— they carried over with them from their prior MOS. The Big Army APFT is good enough for them.

That’s not to mention some high speed officers that made damned sure the supply cages were stocked with enough office supplies to last five years, but only a single RTR-4 that only half-ass worked because the company had raped all the other machines for all the spare parts they could cobble together. Some companies nowadays don’t even have that. Some are blessed with a command that can finagle supplies to perform a mission, some are cursed with 100 tomahawks sitting in the supply cage, and no mission to use them on.

It was a clusterfuck before and during my time on the teams, and it hasn’t changed a whole lot since I got out. I was fortunate enough to have landed in a decent company that understood the future of SOF support, but that was right before I got out. Not every company will have driven individuals that can tell Big Army to take their standards and get fucked while arranging the training they need.

There needs to be a fundamental change in understanding what EOD’s mission is at echelons above corps, and then EOD can begin selecting for that mission. I just don’t think Big Army has the mental capacity to do it.

As an aside, if it seems like a hit piece, that’s because one of the writers is a former tech. He’s doing what he can to effect the changes EOD needs to evolve into something more than TDY funds for chem dawgs.
 
How can anybody expect infantry and support people accompanying SF detachments to have the same level of training and specialized gear?

When I was mobilized from 20th to augment 3rd Group in 2012, there was zero daylight between my Guard SOT-A and active duty ODA we were attached to. We were fully integrated into their SOPs, base defense plan, went on all CONOPS, etc. and had exact same gear.

The ONLY time we were able excluded was when the Tm SGT called a team meeting (direct one-way commo session).

The infantry squad that was assigned to the ODA was different: I don’t remember them dismounting with us except on the rare occasion like this one:


@Viper1

Edit: at the very end, the dude wearing the white “cheetahs” was our CCT and the dumbass with the ruck was yours truly.
 
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The dude standing in the middle at 3:02, SF or support?

U.S. forces fight for hearts and minds - CNN Video

The school visit (first part of vid) was the day before and the mortar round find was day of the TIC that CNN filmed. @3:00, I informed the commander and TS that a “friend” was close by so the team made a plan for a surprise party. I brought all my tech gear to DJ the party (cats n boots, cats n boots) and as we got close, the friend apparently didn’t want guests that day...so we understood via PKM.

Was uneventful but made for some good video for folks stateside although the wife wasn’t impressed. She thought I was working inside a hardened shelter like all the previous Iraq & Afghan jobs I had previously.
 
When I was mobilized from 20th to augment 3rd Group in 2012, there was zero daylight between my Guard SOT-A and active duty ODA we were attached to. We were fully integrated into their SOPs, base defense plan, went on all CONOPS, etc. and had exact same gear.

The ONLY time we were able excluded was when the Tm SGT called a team meeting (direct one-way commo session).

The infantry squad that was assigned to the ODA was different: I don’t remember them dismounting with us except on the rare occasion like this one:


@Viper1

Edit: at the very end, the dude wearing the white “cheetahs” was our CCT and the dumbass with the ruck was yours truly.


I didn't mean to suggest that regular SOF support elements aren't skilled. I know you guys go through some very tough specialized training to get where you are, often including airborne/MFF etc. I'm mostly talking about infantry and/or units that are not used to working with SF.

BTW, I've seen that CNN video before. You look good, bro. 8-) And thanks for posting it because helmet cam videos make me jones for the rush.
 
Ah very good point. In the first vid, it’s easy to spot the attachments. True story: the chick with the red bandanna in the TIC vid...the one that swept the Marine CPT’s foot...didn’t have a round racked in her M4.

(Spoken with a movie trailer voice)
"In a world dominated by tans and greens, ONE soldier defied all expectations. One soldier took a stand when others wouldn't. One soldier...wore a red bandana and stood out from the rest."

Was Safety Orange not available?
 
Ah very good point. In the first vid, it’s easy to spot the attachments. True story: the chick with the red bandanna in the TIC vid...the one that swept the Marine CPT’s foot...didn’t have a round racked in her M4.
Why was she wearing a red bandana?
 
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