Fixes Soldiers Want

[AWP]

This is per Army Times, but the points are valid. What bothers me, and maybe this is a seperate thread, is the list of "the more humorous, unlikely or outlandish idaes" (yes, the typo is in the article). The bold text are the ones which to be frank, are good ideas in my opinion and not something as a punchline...which says a lot about the thinking of policy makers and mouthpieces like the Army Times.

http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/2014/11/12/top-fixes-soldiers-want-now/18913317/

Allow beards.
■ Return to BDUs and black boots.
■ Burn all the PT belts.
■ Free PT belts for everybody.
■ An AKO where you don't have to sacrifice your first born to get access.
■ Get rid of specialist rank and replace with corporal.
■ Bring back Green Beans Coffee in Iraq, expand into Syria and turn us loose.
■ Stop giving Bronze Stars to senior enlisted and officers.
■ Allow sleeve rolling in the spring and summer.
■ Raise the retirement age.
■ Stop the implementation of the new NCOER.
■ Push for a combat PT test.
■ Bring back all the pink-slipped soldiers.
■ Shut down Fort Polk.
■ Free beer on motor pool Mondays

The Six items taken seriously:

1. Change the tattoo reg.
2. Dump overweight soldiers.
3. Up the standards for training.
4. Stop the drawdown.
5. Empower NCOs.
6. Get rid of toxic leaders.

My favorite quote:
Being outranked by a deserter is also not cool.

There's so much win and so much fail in that one article it is breathtaking.

 

[SpongeBob*24]

An AKO where you don't have to sacrifice your first born to get access...

As a commo guy the AKO one cracks me up.....

 

[MilkTruckCoPilot]

Yes! Enterprise/AKO needs to burn in the blackest pits of hell. Screw that system!

 

[TLDR20]

The tattoo reg I think is being made to specifically target warfighters.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

The tattoo reg I think is being made to specifically target warfighters.

How do you mean? To encourage them to get out?

 

[TLDR20]

Yeah

 

[Kraut783]

I kinda like allowing beards, neatly trimmed beards....but too many would push it and ruin it for everyone.

 

[BloodStripe]

Can someone explain why soldier's want the Specialist rank removed? In my humble opinion, that many would be throwing away a few hundred dollars a month because the E-4 mafia would shrink. No need to have a Corporal in a E-3 billet.

The Marine Corps has been ripping off Marines for years by having Lance Corporal's as team leaders, Corporal's as squad leaders, and Sergeant's as Platoon Sergeant's. Perhaps the Army could have a larger force by doing the same.

 

[AWP]

Can someone explain why soldier's want the Specialist rank removed? In my humble opinion, that many would be throwing away a few hundred dollars a month because the E-4 mafia would shrink. No need to have a Corporal in a E-3 billet.

The Marine Corps has been ripping off Marines for years by having Lance Corporal's as team leaders, Corporal's as squad leaders, and Sergeant's as Platoon Sergeant's. Perhaps the Army could have a larger force by doing the same.

Because you wouldn't suddenly see E-3's doing those jobs. The Specialist is just a hold over from the 60's and early 70's. In some cases E-4's will find themselves in charge of something, but not an NCO. The Army needs to kill one and stop the "half-assing" it has done with the rank for the last 3 decades. E-4's are junior enlisted or NCO's...the Army needs to pick one.

Comparing the Army and Marines in this case is apples and oranges.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Can someone explain why soldier's want the Specialist rank removed? In my humble opinion, that many would be throwing away a few hundred dollars a month because the E-4 mafia would shrink. No need to have a Corporal in a E-3 billet.

The Marine Corps has been ripping off Marines for years by having Lance Corporal's as team leaders, Corporal's as squad leaders, and Sergeant's as Platoon Sergeant's. Perhaps the Army could have a larger force by doing the same.

I may be coming at this from a different POV, but one of the things I loved about the Corps was that they would put such junior ranks in responsible positions. It forces them to grow up faster, and quite honestly I think makes for stronger leaders when they get out of the Corps.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Because you wouldn't suddenly see E-3's doing those jobs. The Specialist is just a hold over from the 60's and early 70's. In some cases E-4's will find themselves in charge of something, but not an NCO. The Army needs to kill one and stop the "half-assing" it has done with the rank for the last 3 decades. E-4's are junior enlisted or NCO's...the Army needs to pick one.

Comparing the Army and Marines in this case is apples and oranges.

I was a SP4 for a long time then a CPL for a short period of time prior to being promoted to SGT and only was a CPL after becoming an actual team leader. I say if the E-4 is actually in charge of something, then they should be made a CPL until they actually promote to SGT, otherwise you have a bunch of "junior" NCOs running around with zero purpose.

I recall going through a bunch of tests at MAMC on Lewis as a CPL. A SSG in the medical branch told me that all E-4s should be corporals as it would prepare them to become NCOs. I informed him that a CPL is actually an NCO and told him that if you're an NCO and not in charge of anything that you shouldn't be an NCO, you should be a SP4, 5, or 6. He did not like my idea.

 

[Ranger Psych]

Because you wouldn't suddenly see E-3's doing those jobs. The Specialist is just a hold over from the 60's and early 70's. In some cases E-4's will find themselves in charge of something, but not an NCO. The Army needs to kill one and stop the "half-assing" it has done with the rank for the last 3 decades. E-4's are junior enlisted or NCO's...the Army needs to pick one.

Comparing the Army and Marines in this case is apples and oranges.

I guess I see it in both directions. Granted, my segment of the population and basis for my viewpoint is based off the 75th... but this is how it "rolled" at least pre-9-11 as well as immediately post-9-11

Specialists were Specialists. They were the highest non-NCO position. The only time you'd see a Specialist as a team leader was if they were already promotable, as in boarded etc.

Pre-board, but had shown leadership initiative and skill to the point that pre-board they were assigned a team, they were promoted to Corporal and were slotted in a duty position. The whole Corporal promotion was to give them "teeth" in the gap between "senior enlisted" and "schooled noncom".

MTOE also dictated this, specifically there were 7 E-5 slots within our platoons. Senior gun team leader and 6 Fire team leaders. The other two gun teams had Corporals in charge of them, and Fire teams COULD have Corporals however it was not uber common. If you were shit hot prior to going to school, and there was a gap, you could flat out "skip" Specialist and go straight to Corporal, assuming a gun team or fire team depending. At that point, you'd do all the usual team leader duties with some chevrons to back it up albeit light one. Board, and then get that 3rd and a pay raise either prior to, or after PLDC depending on overall latitude within the unit overall.

Basically, Corporal actually does serve a purpose as an interim "rank with teeth' to give individuals who are currently filling a duty position above their pay grade, while having to deal with TIS/TIG prior to promotion. Yes, everything can be waived, however "real rank" and the ability to actually promote is often dictated by influences outside of the unit.

After all, I'd take a Ranger Corporal over.. well, over 3/4 of the SSG's in the regular army. But, that's effectively comparing a piper to a pilatus.

 

[AWP]

Does the Navy allow one to enlist as an E-4 if they have a 4-year degree?

 

[compforce]

Because you wouldn't suddenly see E-3's doing those jobs. The Specialist is just a hold over from the 60's and early 70's. In some cases E-4's will find themselves in charge of something, but not an NCO. The Army needs to kill one and stop the "half-assing" it has done with the rank for the last 3 decades. E-4's are junior enlisted or NCO's...the Army needs to pick one.
Comparing the Army and Marines in this case is apples and oranges.

I actually think it should go back the other way to SP5, SP6 and SP7. There are plenty of people that are getting promoted on TIG/TIS that are technically capable in their MOS, but have no business leading others or who deserve the pay raise, but there are no NCO slots available.

They did away with those grades during the drawdown from Vietnam and right after (1973 for SP7, 1985 for the rest), but there are still a few holdovers. SPC/CPL, MSG/1SG, SGM/CSM where the nonleader/leader distinction is drawn. It used to be that there was a leadership and non-leadership position at every (current) NCO grade. It made sense as a way to keep people motivated that wanted to do their job, but just didn't want the leadership responsibility. When they created the CSM rank, they dropped the SP8 and SP9 ranks because they were redundant, which still makes sense.

Regardless of what the Army thinks, not everyone can be taught to be a leader. There should be a way to keep technically proficient individuals in the Army even if they can't lead others...or the others won't follow. Overweight, but a real stud at a CSS job.. Specialist forever. Incredibly good at individual tactics but can't get anyone to go where you want them? Specialist. Cook that can turn out gourmet meals, but doesn't know how to teach the others...Specialist Did everything perfect, but can't get a slot to an NCOES?...promoted to specialist. Promoted but can't get to the school in the required timeframe..Specialist.

There's a place for those ranks that would ultimately improve the proficiency and morale of the Army. Even more so in the Reserves and National Guard where it takes someone above you dying to get a slot that makes you eligible for promotion.

 

[AWP]

I actually think it should go back the other way to SP5, SP6 and SP7. There are plenty of people that are getting promoted on TIG/TIS that are technically capable in their MOS, but have no business leading others or who deserve the pay raise, but there are no NCO slots available.

You have valid points.

I'd do away with Spec 4 IF the others weren't returning. I am 100% on board with "not everyone can be a leader" but the Army is unlikely (foolishly) to bring back the Specialist/ Technician ranks. If we're going to adhere to this fallacy where everyone's a leader then we need to commit to that thought process. The main reason Spec 4 won't go away is because we're enlisting guys as E-4's.

 

[SkrewzLoose]

Does the Navy allow one to enlist as an E-4 if they have a 4-year degree?

No, the highest you can come into boot camp is E3. I had a few buddies in A-school with college degrees. E3 is based on college credits (54 credits got me E3), Eagle Scout and a few other things I can't recall right now. Some of the more technical ratings with long A & C Schools allow automatic promotion to E4 after graduating A-school and TIS is met. But as for enlisting, E3 is the highest.

 

[AWP]

No, the highest you can come into boot camp is E3. I had a few buddies in A-school with college degrees. E3 is based on college credits (54 credits got me E3), Eagle Scout and a few other things I can't recall right now. Some of the more technical ratings with long A & C Schools allow automatic promotion to E4 after graduating A-school and TIS is met. But as for enlisting, E3 is the highest.

That's what I thought, but wanted to be sure. Danke.

Yeah, the Army won't kill Spec 4, not as long as it enlists guys with a 4-year degree as an E-4.

 

[Viper1]

One of the best moments of professional development was when I saw a medic Corporal chew out a medic Specialist for being a lazy, back talking dirtbag. I love Corporals, and I had two as fire team leaders in my platoon.

Corporal is an excellent rank for those with leadership potential who need that extra push and challenge to step into the NCO ranks. Most of my Squad leaders had been Corporals and a couple had the rank removed after doing something stupid, thus being "laterally demoted" back to Specialist. They said it was a quality leadership lesson for them and loved the fact they wore an increasingly uncommon rank. I love feisty Corporals.

We recently promoted a Specialist to Corporal in my company because he is a hard worker and consistently shows leadership qualities amongst his peers. He's now the guy SFODAs are fighting over for deployment support and they are mentoring him for SFAS in the future. He's gotten a small taste of NCO duties and responsibilities and continues to excel. Something happens that I can't explain but I believe the rank forces them to grow up a bit, especially if they know that those two stripes can be ripped off their chest and given to their buddy at a moment's notice.

Did I mention I love Corporals? Especially Corporals who are fire team leaders?

 

[ThunderHorse]

I want to kick one of my Corporals out of the Army. He's a dirtbag that thinks he's gods gift. He's just gone downhill since I've been his PL. What I think should happen is once someone is made a corporal they need to get an NCOER. Because then, they'd understand that they're the same. Some of the Soldiers in my Troop think Corporal's a bitch rank because you end up getting the most shoved on your plate. The reality is, the junior guy always gets the most stuff to do, but definitely not always the hardest. Neither of the two corporals I have in my PLT had been boarded when I had arrived. One is currently promotable, the other is the one I want to crush. But branch put him in for Airborne School and Alaska. . .doesn't help that the CO thinks he's gods gift.

And as an officer, all of those Joe Snuffy comments via the Army Times can pound sand: BDUs and Black boots? WTF How about a new service uniform? Or maybe issue two sets of the both the new PT an Combat uniforms. Because when I have to go out and throw down $600 next may for new fatigues 'm not going to be happy. Oh yeah, that doesn't even count skivvy shirts and the new boots we'll have to buy.

And they did change the tattoo policy, to make the force more professional. There's a whole lot of canvas between the Kneck, Elbows, and Knees. And it no longer stops a soldier from attempting to commission or go warrant.

 

[SkrewzLoose]

Does the Army get an annual uniform allowance?
Also, are you asserting that visible tattoos in uniform = unprofessional; or is that just your interpretation of the new regulation?