HSC-84 and HSC-85: The Navy's 160th?

[JB(A)]

I addressed some of your points in my original post...the one that got removed.

As for the manning. There is a lot of behind the scenes string-pulling that happens on the PERS side. However, it is all handshakes and winks. We do shit-can dudes that don't make the cut. We would never field a guy who wasn't ready. The squadron knows that the only thing we had was our reputation, so we always sought to keep that clean. Neither the officer pilots nor the enlisted crewmen have any problem whatsoever in removing a guy from training. At that point, he either sits on the sidelines, does FCF (maintenance flights), or we send him out if the detailer can find him a spot somewhere else. There is no doubt that this needs to be fixed over the long term.

During OIF it was easier to keep guys trained to a higher level. You could send them through the training pipeline and then send them off to war. By the time they were done with their first rotation, they were usually locked-on tight. We had a pretty good system running and we were making great crews. But..just like anything else, if you don't institutionalize it, you will lose it.

The Navy's history on these squadrons is bi-polar. You are spot-on with your assessment about war-peace transitions. It is very political beyond that though. The guys who support 'fleet' operations are the ones who promote to positions of authority. They want their guys to get the SOF mission and they think it is unfair how it is distributed. They were brought up in a culture that hates the HCS-4/5 and now HSC-84/85 mindset. To be in 84/85 means you are constantly swimming upstream and against all other forces that are in place. You are constantly having to justify yourself to higher echelons. It is a real pain in the ass from an administrative standpoint.

 

[JB(A)]

To put them in perspective, HCS-4/HSC-84 (same unit, different designation) did somewhere in the neighborhood of 1500 DAs during OIF/OND. So, they have real-world experience. I don't want that point to be missed during this discussion. In total, we had over 11,000 combat flight hours. So, it isn't like 84 is just showing up. They had OIF from sometimes in late '03-'04 and from '05-the end of the war.

 

[mm23]

I addressed some of your points in my original post...the one that got removed.

As for the manning. There is a lot of behind the scenes string-pulling that happens on the PERS side. However, it is all handshakes and winks. We do shit-can dudes that don't make the cut. We would never field a guy who wasn't ready. The squadron knows that the only thing we had was our reputation, so we always sought to keep that clean. Neither the officer pilots nor the enlisted crewmen have any problem whatsoever in removing a guy from training. At that point, he either sits on the sidelines, does FCF (maintenance flights), or we send him out if the detailer can find him a spot somewhere else. There is no doubt that this needs to be fixed over the long term.

During OIF it was easier to keep guys trained to a higher level. You could send them through the training pipeline and then send them off to war. By the time they were done with their first rotation, they were usually locked-on tight. We had a pretty good system running and we were making great crews. But..just like anything else, if you don't institutionalize it, you will lose it.

The Navy's history on these squadrons is bi-polar. You are spot-on with your assessment about war-peace transitions. It is very political beyond that though. The guys who support 'fleet' operations are the ones who promote to positions of authority. They want their guys to get the SOF mission and they think it is unfair how it is distributed. They were brought up in a culture that hates the HCS-4/5 and now HSC-84/85 mindset. To be in 84/85 means you are constantly swimming upstream and against all other forces that are in place. You are constantly having to justify yourself to higher echelons. It is a real pain in the ass from an administrative standpoint.

So what would be the process of finding your way into this unit from out of A School and what ratings would see flight time?

 

[JB(A)]

Your rate needs AWS. That will send you through Aircrew Candidate/Water Survival School, Aviation Rescue Swimmer School, AWS A-school, SERE School, H-60 FRS School (aircraft-specific ground and flight training), then to an HSC squadron where you will go through a tactical flight training syllabus. Your chances of getting 84/85 probably aren't extremely high for your first tour since you don't have as much latitude in choosing your first unit..it is more needs of the Navy.
If/When you make it to 84/85, you will go though a pretty demanding tactical flight training syllabus. If it is your second tour...forget most of what you learned at your previous squadron and be prepared to learn because: (1) What you thought you knew, you didn't really know (2) You don't know what you don't know.

 

[melon]

I can imagine the Navy looks at those two squadrons and thinks: Do we need this? Can't we just send them to Reserves like the last guys? Oh, war's over! Dont need them!

Brother, you have no idea. Being the red-headed step child is a tough row to hoe in the Navy and even though SOCOM himself fights for us in budget battles it's a never ending justification.

Best case, we keep doing what we do where we are doing it. Long and short, we aren't the 160th but we're doing the same thing they do, even alongside them at times.

Worst case, the Navy chops us and then four years from now someone says, "oh we need them again" and we have to stand these squadrons back up, starting the cycle all over again.

 

[SkrewzLoose]

Brother, you have no idea. Being the red-headed step child is a tough row to hoe in the Navy and even though SOCOM himself fights for us in budget battles it's a never ending justification.

Best case, we keep doing what we do where we are doing it. Long and short, we aren't the 160th but we're doing the same thing they do, even alongside them at times.

Worst case, the Navy chops us and then four years from now someone says, "oh we need them again" and we have to stand these squadrons back up, starting the cycle all over again.

The bold can be applied across the entire Navy... Fucking sad the complete lack of foresight that exists.

 

[Etype]

The 160th would never use Blackhawks with only one door, or PEQ-2s on their weapons...

 

[CrewGuy]

This...

I've had team guys say they don't like training with those the squadrons because they have already been spoiled by us doing 2 door FRIES ops among other things...

 

[DA SWO]

@JB(A) how long before you guys get the MH-60S?

 

[0699]

Send the HSC guys on over and we will see if they can hang with some of the best rope throwing mini gun shooting men around.. All in all when it comes down to it we all know who gets the call. When's the last time someone on shadowspear took a ride from the Navy to get to a TST or VI?

"For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.” Luke 14:11

//HIJACK//

It's funny how your signature line contradicts what you write.

//HIJACK OFF//

 

[CrewGuy]

//HIJACK//

It's funny how your signature line contradicts what you write.

//HIJACK OFF//

Exalted
1.
raised or elevated, as in rank orcharacter; of high station:
2.
noble or elevated; lofty:


So how did I exalt myself? I hold the regiment in high regard because it is the best of the best. The tip of the aviation spear one could say.

 

[DA SWO]

Exalted
1.
raised or elevated, as in rank orcharacter; of high station:
2.
noble or elevated; lofty:


So how did I exalt myself? I hold the regiment in high regard because it is the best of the best. The tip of the aviation spear one could say.

You don't seem very humble.

 

[0699]

The tip of the aviation spear one could say.

Yet you feel the need to minimize the contributions of other aviation professionals. IMO, the humble man appreciates and applauds the contributions of others while downplaying his own work.

 

[CrewGuy]

Well you are entitled to your opinions as am I. Just because you read my comment a certain way doesn't mean that's how it was intended. But there's no point in arguing about being humble online. So you gentleman enjoy your nights.

 

[SpongeBob*24]

Lets go back to the title...Navy's 160th

If they are the best Helo pilots in the Navy..then the title is correct...end of transmission.......

 

[Etype]

Lets go back to the title...Navy's 160th

If they are the best Helo pilots in the Navy..then the title is correct...end of transmission.......

So then maybe you should petition to have the thread closed...

Is there a point hidden in there?

*insert cute little thumbs up here*

 

[DA SWO]

So then maybe you should petition to have the thread closed...

Is there a point hidden in there?

*insert cute little thumbs up here*

Good idea.

 

[amlove21]

Here, I fixed it. Thread closed.