In Afghanistan, A U.S. Special Forces Major's Meteoric Rise And Humiliating Fall

Marauder06 said:
I'm actually really interested to hear about it. I don't know the guy and I hadn't heard anything about him before this book (written by his wife) broke.

The book and its reviews seem to gush about what a great guy he was and how he got screwed over, while he was in the process of winning the war single-handedly or whatever. But in looking at the severity of the punishment, and the things he was doing, I wonder if he kind of deserved what happened.
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I wonder if he was as awesome as poppa panda bear sexy pants.
Seriously though, I would like to hear the truth on this, but I doubt the Maj(?) will be saying much.
Guess he could always join 20th SFG.
 
SOWT said:
I wonder if he was as awesome as poppa panda bear sexy pants.
Seriously though, I would like to hear the truth on this, but I doubt the Maj(?) will be saying much.
Guess he could always join 20th SFG.
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Nope, he's retired as a Captain.
 
SOWT said:
Interesting.
Grade determination board?
Was he prior enlisted?
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He was called a disgrace, stripped of his Green Beret, reduced in rank to Captain, and given a discharge.

I would love to hear the other side of the story (the Army's side) and not a story written by a journalist who loves him.
 
Ooh-Rah1069 said:
So what does this mean, symbolic? Or he can no longer consider himself a former Green Beret and is erased from the history?
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It means his tab was revoked. His record still shows him as being trained as a Special Forces Officer, but his name is stricken from the rolls of the Regiment and he cannot claim to have served honorably as an SF Officer. He's been PNG'd. It's very similar to exiling someone.

It's not symbolic at all, you have to really screw up to get your tab revoked - a criminal offense or bring dishonor/shame upon the Regiment are the biggest reasons for revocation/PNG.
 
On the face of it, it sounds like an effective guy was fucked due to jealously/narrow mindedness/big army BS.

I'd like to see the Army's take on this and why they did what they did.

Drank? Who gives a fuck, this doesn't happen with SF on deployments? Please...
Drugs? Were they illegal? If they came through the system and given by a medic, no case.
The Chick? Really, who gives a fuck?

Brought down by a 1st LT... Hmmm...

Deserved it because he broke the rules? Really? with the fucking hypocrisy prevalent in the military you really think fucking a Soldier who is doing an outstanding job is a good thing? Yeah, proof the US Army has never stopped being a peacetime Army.

That's how it looks to me, from what I can see now, with what I've seen so far.
 
pardus said:
On the face of it, it sounds like an effective guy was fucked due to jealously/narrow mindedness/big army BS.

I'd like to see the Army's take on this and why they did what they did.

Drank? Who gives a fuck, this doesn't happen with SF on deployments? Please...
Drugs? Were they illegal? If they came through the system and given by a medic, no case.
The Chick? Really, who gives a fuck?

Brought down by a 1st LT... Hmmm...

Deserved it because he broke the rules? Really? with the fucking hypocrisy prevalent in the military you really think fucking a Soldier who is doing an outstanding job is a good thing? Yeah, proof the US Army has never stopped being a peacetime Army.

That's how it looks to me, from what I can see now, with what I've seen so far.
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All those things may go on, but openly flaunting a disregard for those things will get you eventually.
 
TLDR20 said:
All those things may go on, but openly flaunting a disregard for those things will get you eventually.
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Before you make waves, ensure that your boat doesn't have any leaks...
---

I seriously doubt his tab was pulled over some booze and a woman. A kindler, gentler Kurtz is still a Kurtz....
 
TLDR20 said:
All those things may go on, but openly flaunting a disregard for those things will get you eventually.
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Sure, but still hypocrisy right?

Freefalling said:
Before you make waves, ensure that your boat doesn't have any leaks...
---

I seriously doubt his tab was pulled over some booze and a woman. A kindler, gentler Kurtz is still a Kurtz....
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And Kurtz is a bad thing?


------------------------------------------

Bottom line, Do we want to win or do we want to uphold puritan values at all costs?
 
Hmmm, rules are the rules, flaunting your following or failure to is besides the point. If you cannot conduct the mission within the rules set by the higher ups, than you inform them, do your best to change them, but you don't go out and break them on purpose. If you do, you face the consequences, and take the punishment like a man.

Everyone breaks a rule here and there. It happens, but there is a big difference between fucking up, and going off and writing your own rule book.

$.02
 
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pardus said:
Bottom line, Do we want to win or do we want to uphold puritan values at all costs?
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Again, I seriously doubt his tab was pulled because of booze and tail. If the Regiment did that they would cut 7 Groups down to about one battalion. I doubt what's in the press is the full story, but even if it is where he really screwed the pooch was by drawing attention to himself and his "message." Like I said, he made waves in a leaky boat.

I'm not saying people aren't screwed over by the system or men in power, but I'm deeply skeptical when they essentially marry their own PR firm and then admit zero wrong doing.
 
Freefalling said:
Again, I seriously doubt his tab was pulled because of booze and tail. If the Regiment did that they would cut 7 Groups down to about one battalion. I doubt what's in the press is the full story, but even if it is where he really screwed the pooch was by drawing attention to himself and his "message." Like I said, he made waves in a leaky boat.

I'm not saying people aren't screwed over by the system or men in power, but I'm deeply skeptical when they essentially marry their own PR firm and then admit zero wrong doing.
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Yeah it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if there was more to the story. Like I said earlier, my comments are based solely on what I've read in this thread.
 
It's one thing to sneak some shit in and sneak a nipper here and there. It's another to go full alcoholic.

It's one thing to have reality kick your ass and need some medical assistance. It's another to go full addict regardless of the source.

It's one thing to sneak some poon if you're both interested. It's another to cohabitate while deployed in a combat zone while both married to other people.

That's a pretty good list of fucked up from the floor up regardless of where you're at, and all the performance in the world doesn't change that you're a fucking yardsale of a soldier doing that shit.... and if you think it's kosher, you should get the fuck out anyway. Sorry.
 
Ranger Psych said:
It's one thing to sneak some shit in and sneak a nipper here and there. It's another to go full alcoholic.

It's one thing to have reality kick your ass and need some medical assistance. It's another to go full addict regardless of the source.

It's one thing to sneak some poon if you're both interested. It's another to cohabitate while deployed in a combat zone while both married to other people.

That's a pretty good list of fucked up from the floor up regardless of where you're at, and all the performance in the world doesn't change that you're a fucking yardsale of a soldier doing that shit.... and if you think it's kosher, you should get the fuck out anyway. Sorry.
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I worked near his AO for a long while, and you know what, I thought the same when I first heard about this guy and then the allegations. A lot of guys did. But then I realized, we all know the army bureaucracy is backward, that there are rebels in the military, but we might even need guys go "native" (with a litany of successful figures far beyond the likes of Lawrence of Arabia) to win wars. A lot of people have argued people like Gant are needed, people who will live in the village, basically become part of it. If he breaks the rules... who cares? If he's successful, that's what matters.

The fact that he was successful in his AO while he was there, that his tribal militia he helped stand up is one of the most feared in the province to this day, that has always hated guys like him army (guys like Travis Patriquin for example) et all cannot be over looked. Shit like this, believe me, it wins wars.

From Malaya where British Special Branch agents went native, to Northern Ireland where Englishmen went totally Irish (one example of someone like Gant is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Nairac), Iraq, the list goes on, people like Gant win wars like the one in Afghanistan.I mean, I don't want to dis rangers but night raids don't win wars that can last 20 or 30 years, they just win battles.
 
ScribblerSix said:
I worked near his AO for a long while, and you know what, I thought the same when I first heard about this guy and then the allegations. A lot of guys did. But then I realized, we all know the army bureaucracy is backward, that there are rebels in the military, but we might even need guys go "native" (with a litany of successful figures far beyond the likes of Lawrence of Arabia) to win wars. A lot of people have argued people like Gant are needed, people who will live in the village, basically become part of it. If he breaks the rules... who cares? If he's successful, that's what matters.

The fact that he was successful in his AO while he was there, that his tribal militia he helped stand up is one of the most feared in the province to this day, that has always hated guys like him army (guys like Travis Patriquin for example) et all cannot be over looked. Shit like this, believe me, it wins wars.

From Malaya where British Special Branch agents went native, to Northern Ireland where Englishmen went totally Irish (one example of someone like Gant is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Nairac), Iraq, the list goes on, people like Gant win wars like the one in Afghanistan.I mean, I don't want to dis rangers but night raids don't win wars that can last 20 or 30 years, they just win battles.
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No. I cannot agree with this - getting past the uncanny Apocalypse Now scenerio you describe as being okay, you cannot go completely native on the bit. I'm more pissed right now because I was not SOF and cannot describe in "I was there" detail as to why your post upsets me so much, (I do not have the correct words and references), so I am hoping one of my big brothers will come by soon and help me articulate what it is I am trying to say...
 

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