Iraq and ISIS Discussion

So the leader of ISIS is injured? Great...is this an organization which needs "a" leader or "the" leader? If this guy croaks, will the organiztion splinter or is it like AQ and persists without central leadership?



In spite of the carnage, they seem to have cohesive leadership and an advanced command and control structure. It has the look more of a movement than a personality cult. And because of that it may survive. But how long can any entity like this last? Organized or not, they're committing atrocity after atrocity and gleefully sharing the bloodletting on worldwide media? Sooner or later payback has to come.
 
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http://news.yahoo.com/katie-couric-...f-slain-journalist-james-foley-070857840.html

So because their brother was an idiot and more importantly a coward, they want us to start paying up for citizens when they are kidnapped. What do people not understand about paying for hostages only increases the number of people kidnapped? How about the family pay for it? Better yet, make them also pay for the failed rescue operation as well. How much does an op like that cost? Considering the Bergdahl swap cost over a million dollars, I am willing to bet this was easily in the eight to ten million dollar range, depending on where they flew out of. Men kissed their wives, kids, and dogs good-bye knowing full well they may never see them again to go try and rescue him. Hell, one guy who never even met your brother bled for him. Where is the family on that? Had Foley been working for the US Government the situation would be different, but he willingly went to an area because he loved it. Sorry for your loss, but your brother was a piece of shit in my book.
 
What do people not understand about paying for hostages only increases the number of people kidnapped?

The reality is that most people "don't think about it" because those types of situations are so foreign to them. They can't conceive what it's like being in those types of situations...plus, their days are crammed with thoughts about what they are eating for dinner and what's up with the Kardashians.

When they do see it on the news, they try their best to "empathize" with the "victim" and their family and put themselves there...and think about what "they" would want done at the expense of others (military, etc.).

That's why I don't give those types of interviews much weight in my world. They often lash out at any and everyone other than the ones that put themselves in the problem they created and want everyone else to get them out of it.

I suspect it will always be that way.
 
"SOTGWarrior, post: 350295, member: 6861"]Better yet, make them also pay for the failed rescue operation as well.../QUOTE]


In a perfect world^^^

Special Operations people know their expendability; its a measure of their dedication that they make no distinction whether or not the people theyre trying to rescue are assholes.
 
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The reality is that most people "don't think about it" because those types of situations are so foreign to them. They can't conceive what it's like being in those types of situations...plus, their days are crammed with thoughts about what they are eating for dinner and what's up with the Kardashians.

When they do see it on the news, they try their best to "empathize" with the "victim" and their family and put themselves there...and think about what "they" would want done at the expense of others (military, etc.).

That's why I don't give those types of interviews much weight in my world. They often lash out at any and everyone other than the ones that put themselves in the problem they created and want everyone else to get them out of it.

I suspect it will always be that way.

Oh I agree, I just felt the need to vent. Perhaps this thread will get enough hits that when someone searches for James Wright Foley on Google it will be one of the top results to just give them some food for thought (unless any one here is a SEM and wants to bid on the keywords so it shows up first).

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This is a piece I wrote about 4 months ago.. Might be relevant or it might not..

Syria’s Conundrum: Has the West Backed the Wrong Horse?

After nearly three years of fighting and many thousands of innocent civilians dead and nearly two million displaced in the country all the fighting sides finally came to Geneva to try and hammer out a peace deal. This is the first time that all the warring factions have come together in one room to negotiate a peace plan with the UN and the General Secretary, Ban ki moon.

Currently Syria’s warring factions comprise of state army defectors and civilians namely the free Syrian army. Fighting alongside them are various fundamentalists’ Islamic groups, who originate from outside of Syria such as the Al-Qaeda-backed al-Nusra Front and Harakat Ahrar ash-Sham Al Islami. These groups that vehemently oppose Western ideals and culture have declared a post-Assad Syria will be a sharia state whilst the other, the Western government backed National Coalition and its transitional government led by Ahmad Tumeh is made up of the FSA who desire a Western influenced democratic model.

The two main factions fighting on the opposition side have now turned their attention to the Free Syrian Army in a bid to ensure the moderate pro-west FSA will not gain the upper hand and achieve any status in a new post Assad Syria. While this possible outcome is extremely bad for Syria, it could have dire repercussions for the international community should the fundamentalists gain the upper hand and win the current civil war.

Al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri has called for the various groups to stop the infighting and come together under one banner of the Islamic flag. Both Al-Qaeda-backed al-Nusra Front and Harakat Ahrar ash-Sham Al Islami have stepped up their attacks on the moderate FSA which has resulted in over 1,000 deaths in this year alone.

The chemical attacks of the 21st August of 2013 brought the international community’s spotlight firmly on the Assad regime for breaking international norms. The immediate consensus was for an intervention under a responsibility to protect mandate however, Russia and China fearing that this has the possibility to be exceeded like that of the Libyan crises vetoed the mandate.

As we have set the playing field on the various actors in this civil war, the long term outcome of whoever wins will have a longer bearing in the region and that of the wider international community. Can the west afford to let the fundamentalist groups gain an upper hand?

Former CIA Director General Michael Hayden (PRESSE, 2013) has stated that keeping Assad in power could be the best possible outcome for Syria and the international community to bring back some stability into the region. While this might sound impalpable for the regional actors who have backed the anti-Assad rebels, the fact remains that there is a possibility that the fundamentalist could gain control and install a Shariaist backed Islamic state.

After a decade long war in Afghanistan, no one in the west needs a reminder of what another anti –western sharia state could evolve to and the possibility of another state harbouring all who oppose the western way of life and ideals. What this could lead to down the road from now all because the west failed to pick the right horse to back.

While the talks in Geneva continue and will no doubt fail a number of times before all the factions get concessions, the war will continue in Syria and the fundamentalists groups get stronger with more and more disjointed men women and children joining their ranks. This current situation with the various groups baying for power could have far reaching implications for many years until there is a decisive victor. Who that victor is, will decide the regional hegemony and current policy on the region from the west.

Works Cited
Karen DeYoung, 2014. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...c80874-8451-11e3-8099-9181471f7aaf_story.html. [Online]
Available at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...c80874-8451-11e3-8099-9181471f7aaf_story.html
[Accessed 26 Jan 2014].

PRESSE, A. F., 2013. http://www.businessinsider.com/michael-hayden-syria-assad-2013-12. [Online]
Available at: http://www.businessinsider.com/michael-hayden-syria-assad-2013-12
[Accessed 26 Jan 2014].
 

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While I'd love to think they will do it, those cowards are doing it for the publicity. I guess not enough Americans are dying in Afghanistan, so they need another outlet for their attention whoring stupidity. At this point we just need to act like they don't exist. No press, ignore their pickets, don't give them a spotlight. They are a child looking for mommy's attention.
 
IMHO, you can never beat this. Sure you can kill them, capture them, recruit them as sources......but the mentality (Extremism / jihadist/ anti-Christian/anti-Jew/Sharia-law minded...etc) is always there. If the West does nothing, they win.....if the West attacks, they win.......no matter what Western countries do, we will lose in the long run. This might be coming out wrong, but I think the majority of you know what I mean.

It's very frustrating.
 
Nah, we can beat this shit into submission bad enough that they never fuck with us again. The problem is that the American people as a whole are fucking idiots and pussies who have a say in things they don't even remotely understand.

**ETA***

Took me a minute, but I realized some parallels between this stupidity and my own life.

I was bullied as a kid. Literally non stop as flies in africa, etc. Know when it stopped?

When I started going after the motherfuckers systematically and kicked their god damned asses. You attack me, I'm going to level you or at least try my damndest. Didn't matter if I was outnumbered, didn't matter who the fuck you were, didn't matter who your friends were.

You fucked with me, I came after you for a minimum of 4 blocks if you ran.

I realized this Freshman year in HS. The bullying stopped in my sophmore year. Nobody would fuck with me, even the people that normally wouldn't have given a shit (I grew up in cali and couldn't wear red or blue to school, take a guess) because I was the "loco white boy".

But, we're now raised in a society where kids don't grow up shooting, being bullied in school is the norm and we don't go after the perp but snuggle the victim, etc.

"Man the fuck up" time has arrived, gents.

Unfortunately for us, the willing and ready... the populace of this nation is by large and far in bed with cowardice and complacency.
 
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I don't know....Israel has been actively fighting this mentality for awhile now both military and covertly.....and has yet to beat "them" into submission.
 
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