Roosevelt wanted to enter the war, the American people generally did not until Dec. 7. Isolationist sentiments were so strong they forced FDR to slowly roll out support for the Allies, particularly as the 1940 elections loomed.
Iraq and ISIS Discussion
- Thread starter Kraut783
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Roosevelt wanted to enter the war, the American people generally did not until Dec. 7. Isolationist sentiments were so strong they forced FDR to slowly roll out support for the Allies, particularly as the 1940 elections loomed.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/12/u...cked-to-lead-effort-vs-isis.html?src=twr&_r=0
Gen (Ret) Allen to lead the strategy against ISIS. As some may know, he has led troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan. His work in Iraq includes empowering the Sunni tribes by offering them money and protection (Google search "The Awakening Movement").
Gen (Ret) Allen to lead the strategy against ISIS. As some may know, he has led troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan. His work in Iraq includes empowering the Sunni tribes by offering them money and protection (Google search "The Awakening Movement").
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It pains me to see what is going on.
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Great, lets take someone who was a part of a failing policy in Afghanistan and have him enact obviously failed policies in Iraq.
The Awakening Method- we tried that one, it obviously didn't yield lasting results, now we're back.
You can screw a goat all you want, it won't give birth to a minotaur or a faun or any other type of mythical beast- but keep trying. I think you guys get what I'm saying.
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Somewhat? We should do something else?
I believe this to be solely a political move. General Allen was throw in front of the bus during the General Petraeus CIA scandal. He was found to be innocent but not before his career was tarnished.
Sadly I agree.
The "awakening" worked because we forced the Government to treat all tribes semi-equal.
It won't work again because both sides know we are out of Iraq (again) as soon as possible.
Florida173
SOF Support
For me, people referring to it as ISIS is a good indication that they don't really know what it stands for, unless they really know what the last "s" stands for. You could just refer to it as DAISH if you wanted.
The times of Catholics being OK with killing Baptists are long gone. And you should be tired of hearing about something that is pretty fundamental to this problem set, otherwise why would you think that the Iraqi government would be making such drastic changes during this crisis?
Florida173
SOF Support
I think you missed the point that the Awakening was entirely made of Sunnis, mostly former insurgents, that were helping to fight against JAM and keep the peace in their neighborhoods. Most are probably with ISIL now.
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1. ISIL and ISIS are the same thing... Shams means Levant in Arabic, what are you saying?
2. The point I was making is this- Sunni and Shia are sects of Islam, Kurd is an ethnicity- most Kurds are Sunni. There are Sunni extremists from the Kurdish ethnicity (Ansar al Sunnah was a big one) just as there are from the Arab ethnicity, just in smaller numbers. There are also Sunni extremists from many African ethnicities, southeast Asian, Chechen, etc. I guarantee there are Sunni Kurds in IS- the extremists are fighting the secular Kurdish government, not the Kurds themselves.
Look at it this way- Mexicans could be Catholic, Baptist, Agnostic, whatever... So why would I ever say, "there are three groups at work, Catholics, Baptists, and Mexicans." That is the oversimplification that is, "Shia, Sunni, Kurd."
The Awakening Council helped fight against AQI, aka JTJ- not JAM. JAM was a localized threat to Baghdad, Basra, and the spattering of Shia holy cities to the south of Baghdad. JAM only became a major concern after the 2006 killing of Zarqawi and AQIs subsequent demise. There was no JAM in Anbar for the Awakening to fight to begin with.
Florida173
SOF Support
Sure they're the same thing, but we are only using one in the community that track it. Talking about the people that think it refers to Syria.
A bunch of the sons of Iraq working in Baghdad were former AQI and were generally keeping the peace against some the Shia militias. Although I'm only going off of my time running them as sources, so maybe it's dependent on location.
Looking at this shit everyday in message traffic by all means doesn't make me an expert, but I'm definitely not going off of just reading the paper or random articles. Granted I haven't been providing direct support for the problem set for about a month since getting back from SOCFWD.
I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying.... Just needs to be clarified
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The Sunni militias were 100% defensive, anything involving Shia groups stemmed from sectarian attacks by Shias into Sunni neighborhoods.
This is definitely not the place to pump up street cred with talk of sources and message traffic...
Brill
SOF Support
Before they were called AQI, we called them Islamic State of Iraq. Outside of AMZ, I don't remember anyone claiming AQ status especially after the VBIEDs of the Shia shrines.
Strange days.
Strange days.
Florida173
SOF Support
That was indeed the intent...
Putting it into perspective. No need to pump anything up. I'm not talking from outdated experience.
Just be careful not to conflate ISI then with what is going on now, especially when considering the current relationship with AQ and ISIL.
Brill
SOF Support
In my view, ISIL now is what AQ was in the early 80's. I think we should let the Iranians have this one and let's sit back to watch. Perhaps let the Iranians get some exposure to the receiving end of their EFPs.
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There's no point in referencing anything that occurs in the secret or TS realm.
IS in its current form directly tracks their lineage back through ISI/JTJ, they even state that in their own publications. ISI/JTJ had the SAME relationship with AQ as IS does now. Zarqawi broke ties with AQ, after his death AQ tried to reinitiate a relationship with the group- Al Baghdadi moved the group away from AQ once again.
Nearly every post you've made so far on this topic has contained some form of misinformation that has been presented in contradiction to someone.
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Brill
SOF Support
Interesting article.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown...remists-may-pose-bigger-threat-islamic-state/
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown...remists-may-pose-bigger-threat-islamic-state/
Florida173
SOF Support
I'm really sick of this type of stuff. Not going to comment on KG, but interesting they mention that it's a Syrian extremist group.
Mmmmm, I love the taste of a pissing contest when it comes to learning as much as I can about a conflict. Tastes like vinegar with a victory label slapped on the bottle.
Nasty comment in here somewhere......
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