Iraq and ISIS Discussion

[Brill]

wow.

http://soufangroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/TSG_ForeignFightersUpdate1.pdf

 

[Etype]

... Assad is a POS and should be replaced.

According to your western perspective. When it comes to countries in that region with multiple religious and ethnic groups, a "good" or "ethical" leader will NEVER be able to exercise any semblance of control.

 

[AWP]

Some people/ cultures need a dictator. We value freedom so much that we can't comprehend a world without it, but look how long it took in the West for a democracy/ republic to work again. Some folks just aren't ready to rule themselves....and may never be ready.

 

[AWP]

I thought @lindy made this point earlier but couldn't find it.

U.S. report warns of ISIS creating fake passports - CNNPolitics.com

Washington (CNN)—A new intelligence report shared with law enforcement warns of ISIS' ability to create passports utilizing seized Syrian government assets, according to a law enforcement official with direct knowledge of the intelligence report's contents.

The report warned that, based on U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's intelligence sources, ISIS has access to passport printing machines and blank passport books, raising the possibility the documents could be faked, according to the source.

Good luck vetting those refugees.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

According to your western perspective. When it comes to countries in that region with multiple religious and ethnic groups, a "good" or "ethical" leader will NEVER be able to exercise any semblance of control.

Very good point, and I do agree.

However, the end game has always been to bring the whole middle east into the modern world, to include western style democracy. I could be wrong about Assad, maybe they need to keep him for a few more years, however, the whole problem did start with his country protesting his being in office and his way of dealing with said protesters.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

Some people/ cultures need a dictator. We value freedom so much that we can't comprehend a world without it, but look how long it took in the West for a democracy/ republic to work again. Some folks just aren't ready to rule themselves....and may never be ready.

I agree and disagree, the end game since we went into Afghanistan and Iraq was to bring western style democracy to the middle east, to change or allow the culture to change.

Our government had all kinds of growing pains, many called for a dictatorship or a king, etc. Hell we had a huge civil war, to include many small scale insurrection. We still have our own problems.

So I think its premature to judge a true and free democracies in the middle east, when they are relatively new, historically speaking. I mean to be real honest, its probably going to be 50-75 years before we know if that strategy works.

 

[Brill]

I thought @lindy made this point earlier but couldn't find it.

U.S. report warns of ISIS creating fake passports - CNNPolitics.com



Good luck vetting those refugees.

Wait a sec...I have no knowledge of what ISIL is or isn't doing with regards to travel documentation. My assertion was based on common sense and videos of ISIL soldiers raiding ISF weapons depots. If they can raid storage buildings and banks, one could deduce that travel docs, ID cards, etc would be available too.

(Check this mo fo trying to get me to share a cell & shack up with Bergdhal in the Federal "poke" house.)

 

[Brill]

According to your western perspective. When it comes to countries in that region with multiple religious and ethnic groups, a "good" or "ethical" leader will NEVER be able to exercise any semblance of control.

We should have learned that from Yugoslavia. Tito kept things under control until he died...the country died not long after.

 

[AWP]

Wait a sec...I have no knowledge of what ISIL is or isn't doing with regards to travel documentation. My assertion was based on common sense and videos of ISIL soldiers raiding ISF weapons depots. If they can raid storage buildings and banks, one could deduce that travel docs, ID cards, etc would be available too.

(Check this mo fo trying to get me to share a cell & shack up with Bergdhal in the Federal "poke" house.)

Maybe Bowe could be your "bae" and Chelsea M. could watch?

I just threw up a little. My bad.

 

[Brill]

Maybe Bowe could be your "bae" and Chelsea M. could watch?

I just threw up a little. My bad.

Bae Watch???

 

[AWP]

Bae Watch???

 

[Etype]

Very good point, and I do agree.

However, the end game has always been to bring the whole middle east into the modern world, to include western style democracy. I could be wrong about Assad, maybe they need to keep him for a few more years, however, the whole problem did start with his country protesting his being in office and his way of dealing with said protesters.

I think the result of a true democracy in Syria and/or Iraq would result in a repeat of exactly what we have- a civil war. Shias came to power in both Syria and Iraq, the Sunnis saw it as a big threat- enter ISIS.

If a Sunni gov't was elected, you'd see the same thing with an Iran backed force.

 

[Gunz]

We should have learned that from Yugoslavia. Tito kept things under control until he died...

Yep. Syria seems to me to be the kind of chaotic environment that only concentrated, centralized power could bring under control. And before you can introduce anything remotely resembling a representative-type government you need to get things under control. Whatever it takes. Patton got intense flak for employing Nazis to run the infrastructure but they were the best people for the job because they knew how to run things.

 

[JBS]

The architect of the Arab Spring, and domestically the 'Solidarity' movement would disagree with you.

Somehow either her plan failed and the Twitter generation across the Peninsuala/N.Africa and the Middle East didn't rise up to take control of the voids left in all these nations as expected (being instead filled by Jihadists),or else the current chaos was her plan.

Neither is acceptable. (Despite this, she's still being considered for potus).

I think a good application of a lesson learned from Iraq would be to deal with IS, but leave Assad in power.

If he brings some semblance of control over the country, it's better than the alternative.

 

[Brill]

Bring back the OSS?

America’s Not Ready for Today’s Gray Wars

 

[DA SWO]

Bring back the OSS?

America’s Not Ready for Today’s Gray Wars

Yes, the CIA has become bloated and career oriented.
I think you have to re-invent the wheel (STS) every now and then to keep innovation alive.

 

[Etype]

Bring back the OSS?

America’s Not Ready for Today’s Gray Wars

I think it's kind of cheap that a former SOCOM CDR would write an article about a community that exists almost solely in the TS realm. My personal opinion is that he should abstain from commenting negatively on something he knows he can't even really talk about.

Without playing the, "my clearance has me privy to things you'll never understand," game- I think most folks would agree that the US IC, both on the military side and otherwise, is more robust than ever, is the most capable in the world by a long shot, and continues to evolve.

 

[Etype]

Bring back the OSS?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...vUfpV1GtJb-CveGUg&sig2=Y5uCve6GDBsWi1aV4YTvsA

Page 13.

 

[Florida173]

I think it's kind of cheap that a former SOCOM CDR would write an article about a community that exists almost solely in the TS realm. My personal opinion is that he should abstain from commenting negatively on something he knows he can't even really talk about.

Without playing the, "my clearance has me privy to things you'll never understand," game- I think most folks would agree that the US IC, both on the military side and otherwise, is more robust than ever, is the most capable in the world by a long shot, and continues to evolve.

That guy was never a fan of the intel community, so it makes sense that he doesn't know much about it

 

[Gunz]

Dudes...Hillary is about to reveal her master plan for the destruction of ISIS. :whatever: