Iraq and ISIS Discussion

[Florida173]

Our material support of rebel groups and to some extent ISIS, since many of the dudes we've trained have either surrendered or died extremely fast is one of the major reasons this is still going on.

Was commuting and didn't get a chance to answer for my disagree. Stuck at DFW because of weather yesterday. Sorry to forum overlords.

If you completely ignore the globalization of ISIL through their affiliates. North Africa is failing, more so than normal with the vacuum of power, because of the preponderance of ISIL groups in Tunisia and Libya. ISIL Sinai, Indonesia, and Afghanistan are mostly successful without our materiel support.

This is still going on because it's just the next iteration of the Sunni vs. Shia conflict that we have been part-time consumers of. It's a hard disagree that our materiel support has played a major role. It's more to our lack of commitment to engage our enemy since '79, and maybe involving ourselves unnecessarily in a continuous proxy war.

 

[SpongeBob*24]

Bunny......:-"

 

[Florida173]

Bunny......:-"

View attachment 16372

And then you have Hooker parties. Fun times

 

[ThunderHorse]

So the Kurds are who our F-22s were protecting...

U.S.-Backed Kurds to Assad Forces: ‘Surrender or Die’

I would call this confrontation on both the Kurds and the SAA a waste of combat power, and if we're the ones pushing the YPG to gain contact with the SAA, we're being idiots.

 

[Single Malt]

So the Kurds are who our F-22s were protecting...

U.S.-Backed Kurds to Assad Forces: ‘Surrender or Die’

I would call this confrontation on both the Kurds and the SAA a waste of combat power, and if we're the ones pushing the YPG to gain contact with the SAA, we're being idiots.

Why?

 

[Etype]

So the Kurds are who our F-22s were protecting...

U.S.-Backed Kurds to Assad Forces: ‘Surrender or Die’

I would call this confrontation on both the Kurds and the SAA a waste of combat power, and if we're the ones pushing the YPG to gain contact with the SAA, we're being idiots.

If only the theater and strategic level decision makers had access to The Daily Beast, they could make informed decision like you!

 

[AWP]

So the Kurds are who our F-22s were protecting...

U.S.-Backed Kurds to Assad Forces: ‘Surrender or Die’

No. We have guys on the ground there, they were nearly (or more) bombed the day before. We set up some -22's in response (and you don't need to be an air strategist to know -22's don't fly alone) and the Syrians tried us. They were unarmed and we saw that, but they were testing us. I work in one of the theater C2 nodes and watched this play out live.

The Russians and Syrians have been rather active in the last few weeks. If you want to believe that the Raptors were there to protect the Kurds, I don't know what to say. Our guys were nearly killed so we dropped a flight of -22's on top of them to see what the Syrians did next. When word came back that the Su-24''s were "slick" you could feel the tension ratchet down a notch.

Our air campaign...it would blow people's minds if they could see the shit we have to put up with from our "allies" to say nothing of the Syrians or our Russian frenemies.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Cool. @Freefalling, that's all well and good but I have not liked nor been cool with the grand strategic effects of having troops or aid of any kind in Syria. A stable and secular Syria is in our interests even if we hate Assad. Hell, just stability in that region is better for us.

 

[AWP]

Cool. @Freefalling, that's all well and good but I have not liked nor been cool with the grand strategic effects of having troops or aid of any kind in Syria. A stable and secular Syria is in our interests even if we hate Assad. Hell, just stability in that region is better for us.

I understand your point, but to say our fighters were there to protect the Kurds is an extreme oversimplification and ignores a number of other factors in the air and on the ground that afternoon, assuming someone knew of all the moving pieces.

 

[Etype]

A stable and secular Syria is in our interests even if we hate Assad. Hell, just stability in that region is better for us.

That ship has long since sailed. ISIS, Al Nusra, Jaysh Al Islam, et al. are all going to make sure Syria is neither free nor secular.

Here's what we are looking at-
1.a. Russia backs Assad, crushes the rebellion and Syria is left as a strong ally.
1.b. Russia gives just enough aid to leave all parties broken and impotent, leaving Syria as a puppet state, dependant on Russia for rebuilding.
2. Russia gives up and ISIS gains total control of Syria.
3. The US protects their imperfect partnership with The Kurds while allowing the undesirables in Syria to continue killing each other.

The goal of UW isn't always to overthrow, it's also conducted to degrade.

 

[Brill]

The goal of UW isn't always to overthrow, it's also conducted to degrade.

That is EXACTLY why the other guys should reduce the footprint, transfer assets to "you", and leave you to it.

No DOD briefings, nothing on CNN, etc. Let Iraqi press and Rudaw cover it.

 

[DA SWO]

I agree with the Germans here, and they shouldn't wait until December to withdraw.
Turkey is a little bitch that needs to go away.

Germany Mulls Pulling Out of Incirlik
—BRIAN EVERSTINE
Germany is looking at different locations for its Tornado aircraft and service members as a dispute between the country and Turkey has prevented lawmakers from being able to visit Incirlik Air Base. Germany early this year deployed Tornado ECR reconnaissance and electronic warfare aircraft and an A310 tanker to Incirlik to contribute to the coalition's fight against ISIS. However, Ankara has blocked German lawmakers from visiting the base after the German parliament passed a resolution stating that a 1915 massacre of Armenians by Ottoman forces is a genocide, according to Reuters. Some German lawmakers are threatening to pull the aircraft and end the mission unless they can visit the base, and the German Defense Ministry said this week it is studying other base options for the aircraft. The current authority for the deployment ends in December, Der Spiegel reported.

 

[CQB]

From ABC radio here, a discussion on terrorism. Listen on line or get the podcast.

ABC Radio

 

[benroliver]

I found this discussion extremely interesting.

Noam Chomsky on Syria Conflict: Cut Off the Flow of Arms & Stop Bombing to Stem the Atrocities | Democracy Now!

 

[Florida173]

Fuck Noam Chomsky

 

[Etype]

Cut Off the Flow of Arms...

Brilliant and simple!!! Let's do it!






What a dope. Chomsky's comments were nothing but vague, semi-truths. He didn't offer any type of deeper understanding than the average adult human with cable or internet would have.

 

[benroliver]

Brilliant and simple!!! Let's do it!
What a dope. Chomsky's comments were nothing but vague, semi-truths. He didn't offer any type of deeper understanding than the average adult human with cable or internet would have.

To be fair, the average American adult probably couldn't identify a single part of the middle east on a map He does have some more detailed discussions it, I found his work on Iran/Israel to be the most interesting.

 

[AWP]

Chomsky's a broken clock and that article's no exception.

 

[Etype]

To be fair, the average American adult probably couldn't identify a single part of the middle east on a map He does have some more detailed discussions it, I found his work on Iran/Israel to be the most interesting.

His comments were one degree seperated from, "if everyone stopped fighting, no one would be fighting anymore."

 

[Etype]

When it comes to ISIS though – they barely even get “just the tip” of the spear and I only wish you could have seen what I saw.

Hmmmm, about that.



... And the Taliban, remember how they crumbled after a few weeks back in 2001? Russia, Syria, Iran, and Iraq have thrown much more at ISIS than the US did at the Taliban back in '01 and early '02, and they've been doing it for years.