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Looon
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If that happens, OBL will be BBQing on the White House lawn.:doh:
Is the war in Iraq having a negative effect on the larger GWOT?
- Thread starter Marauder06
- Start date
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William Hazen
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Yes I do. The events he helped set into motion are playing themselves out perfectly. Anyone who has studied Maoist Insurgent tactics understands his Strategic Objectives, and as long as we are dependent on Oil Reserves from the Middle East and the Stability of the Autocratic Dictatorships we support like the Saudi's and the Egyptians we are bound to lose in the end. Why?? Because his idealogy only needs to survive to win while we need to a complete and utter victory just to maintain the status quo. It's funny how certain politicians use the 'we're fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them" here anology. That would be realistic if the terrorists had a navy, strategic weapons, and the ability for force projection. Thier only CHOICE is to fight us there. They could not get to us if we enforced our immigration laws... made Homeland Security a Real Agency instead of a Pork Barrel Trough... and protected our own borders (like the Saudies have done) Two Little Things called the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans have prevented foreign enemies from "fighting us here" that since 1812. But hey the Middle East is where the Oil is and as long as the American Consumer is dependant upon it while not willing to sacrifice in order to fight a War (Again OBL'S proof America has no will... TAX CUTS) we're only fucking ourselves and OBL knows this. We will run out of money and resources long before he runs out of bodies. This is the same mistake we made in Vietnam. The kill ratio was 10 to 1 in favor of us. We dominated the battlefield. Giap stated it didn't matter if it was a 100 to 1. He knew survival was the key and that America had no clear Political or Military Plan for Victory other than "Staying the Course" or Escalating the War into WWIII (hence the talk about Iran, Pakistan, North Korea, India, China, then Russia & Britain. That Pesky War Genie again LOL) Call it the TAR BABY Effect. Once you get your hands in it It is awful hard to get it off of you. I think it's cute since it's about Oil. LOL
Call it the Asymetric Paradox. The more we fight and kill insurgents the stronger his idealogy gets and the harder it becomes to achieve victory by military means alone.
I respectfully submit to you Sigi if we back off just over the border to Kuwait... Let the Iraqi's( Key here... Sunni's and Shia's We will always have a political/military presence in Iraq through the greatful KURDS) fight it out and focused on rebuilding Afganistan and Iraq after the Shia/Sunnis sort it out... They would not "follow us here" and oil prices might plummit to the floor.
William Hazen
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William Hazen
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Also Sigi,
There are many other important factors I did not talk about which are relevant to the discussion. I hope we will be to dialog those in upcoming posts.:)
William Hazen
PS. How was the Wedding you went to in Malibu? I'll bet I know them :)
There are many other important factors I did not talk about which are relevant to the discussion. I hope we will be to dialog those in upcoming posts.:)
William Hazen
PS. How was the Wedding you went to in Malibu? I'll bet I know them :)
It is hard to take you seriously sometimes, Bill. None of what you said is based on facts - it is based on a myopic view of the circumstances. I am at least openminded enough to listen to other points of view and not follow lock, stock and barrel to what those in power say.
Understand I am not belittling you for your point of view. It just seems so.....out there.
Understand I am not belittling you for your point of view. It just seems so.....out there.
He is ours and we love him. There is very few points that I agree with William on, but it does make me think and helps me be a better Devils advocate.
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Boondocksaint375
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lmao, im used to seeing those words!;)
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William Hazen
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Gee I guess all thats left for you to do is rebut my "Myopic" Arguments with an Arguement of your own... We can either debate or you can comfort yourself with the myth that it is always better to attack ( I use this word in context) someone's point of view than to explain your own. Again out of respect for the other posters including you... I have chosen to explain mine.
It's also good to know like me you're not following the status quo. I would hope the you will elucidate your independent thought in future posts. You or I have no fear of some jerk censoring your post/thread because they do not subscribe to your point of view.
With all due respect SIGI... You have my respect and my attention without rancour. I hope you will find it helpful of me to suggest you check any "baggage" at the door before you enter.
William Hazen
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Boondocksaint375
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Take it to PM you two.
Bill, now you know I respect you. Yeah, there was a time when I got out of line, but I learned from that and I learn from you. You're very intelligent and always have a point of view. Do I always agree with you? No. But I was and never will be in favor of an echo chamber, and I know you do not either.
He is a for instance on your post: You said we should pull back to Kuwait. You also said we have shown we do not have the stones to fight (tax cuts??). Pulling back to Kuwait does not show the stones you are referring to,
For one, OBL does not want us in the ME and has stated his actions were to remove us - pulling back to Kuwait accomplishes nothing. Two, leaving Iraq now and "letting the two sects fight it out" is oversimplifying the situation - the same as the Neo-Cons you accuse of doing in 2003. And what about Syria and Iran? Do you think because we have a stable Afghanistan that Iraq is no longer strategic? I would argue that now that we are in Iraq it is as strategic as the Stan.
IMHO.
It was my cousin. He got married on the beach, but no party afterward. Very lame.
Saw some nice houses on the cliff, though. My Mother saw one that looked like 3 Walmarts stacked on top of each other - she thought "wow, that has to be $15 million." Ma, try $100 million.
First time on the left coast - I envy you.
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William Hazen
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Sounds like Point Dume. Thats where I live. :) Not on the Cliff though. :) I've had a few folks from the other place over to surf or hang out. Your mom is closer in price. Sounds like she is talking about Anawalt House. Which is about 15 to 20 Million. Along that same cliff live Babara WAWA, A Hilton or two, Bob Dylan, Anthony Hopkins and a host of other "faces". I think I am the only small fry left. LOL
William Hazen
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William Hazen
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Here you go Sigi. I am not the only one with an opinion regarding the Army's degrading combat readiness.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/01/opinion/01sun1.html
William Hazen
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/01/opinion/01sun1.html
William Hazen
pardus
Verified Military
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2006
- Messages
- 10,535
Bill, that piece while having some value in promoting grassroots counter insurgency infantry etc... training, is way off mark in saying projects such as the F-22 are misguided, there IS going to be confrontations with, China etc... in the future, the Major asset the USA has is a technological advantage, Bill, you know that, if we slip up on that aspect the USA will fall, rather quickly.
That being said, the USA Militray needs to refocuse in a more commonwealth type military with the emphisis on basic soldier skills, grunts etc... who can take on mohammed one on one and take him out without support, then with the support, that grunt is a fucking machine!
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William Hazen
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Richard Clarkes take seems pretty close to mine in some key respects. :)
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/01/opinion/01clarke.html
William Hazen
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/01/opinion/01clarke.html
William Hazen
Iraq is having a huge impact on OEF. Logistics, manpower, how higher commands view OEF, etc. Try calling the CAOC in Qatar about OEF, they will get with you after 2PM their time. Why? They work Iraq issues first, OEF and the HOA are cleanup efforts. Logostics: Not enough helos and cargo assets to move men and material and the material takes a back seat to Iraq when ordering parts.
The plus side is without Iraq I'm sure that OEF would have more bad guys in it. I don't think the numbers would be like Iraq though. AND it would be a littler easier to deal with them if they were in one place instead of two.
I had a few captains (army and AF) tell me that an OEF tours wasn't as good as an OIF tour for promotion's sake, but I have no way of verifying that, just their stories and comments.
The plus side is without Iraq I'm sure that OEF would have more bad guys in it. I don't think the numbers would be like Iraq though. AND it would be a littler easier to deal with them if they were in one place instead of two.
I had a few captains (army and AF) tell me that an OEF tours wasn't as good as an OIF tour for promotion's sake, but I have no way of verifying that, just their stories and comments.
