Israel and Iran

DA SWO said:
u

Marshall Island problem then.
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Yes and no.
The Marshall Islands | U.S. Department of the Interior
Under the Compact, the United States provides economic and financial aid and defends the RMI's territorial integrity.
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Technical Difficulties
The Republic of the Marshall Islands (RMI) is a sovereign nation. While the government is free to conduct its own foreign relations, it does so under the terms of the Compact. The United States has full authority and responsibility for security and defense of the Marshall Islands, and the Government of the Marshall Islands is obligated to refrain from taking actions that would be incompatible with these security and defense responsibilities. The United States and the Marshall Islands have full diplomatic relations. Marshallese citizens may work and study in the United States without a visa, and they join the U.S. military at a higher rate than any U.S. state.
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Iran probably chose a ship like this to test us given the Marshall's relationship with the US.
 
We should probably start a new one on "heroism." I saw a video where a bystander ran up to one of the Sydney shooters and was like "Gimme your lunch money, bitch" and took the gun away from him. I also heard that one of the Guardsmen stabbed the guy who shot two of his buddies. Balls.
 
Marauder06 said:
Well, you might not notice it because of all of the domestic headlines, but it's really starting to look like the Iranian regime is on the ropes. I don't think we'll have a better opportunity in our lifetime to put something a little more friendly to us in place.
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I'm hoping Israel pagers with a dash of American freedom from the sky's help the Iranian people overthrow the Cunts responsible for so much of the chaos in the world. Now that would be Nobel worthy.
 
RackMaster said:
I'm hoping Israel pagers with a dash of American freedom from the sky's help the Iranian people overthrow the Cunts responsible for so much of the chaos in the world. Now that would be Nobel worthy.
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You'd think. But even a literal world wide utopia wouldn't get him the Nobel. You know, because, the thing, and OMB.
 
Marauder06 said:
I don't think we'll have a better opportunity in our lifetime to put something a little more friendly to us in place.
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I'll agree with the sentiment, but I don't think we should be putting anything in place.
We've got a real shit track record of trying to install governments in other nations only for it to bite us in the ass; Iran is kind of a prime example.
 
Cookie_ said:
I'll agree with the sentiment, but I don't think we should be putting anything in place.
We've got a real shit track record of trying to install governments in other nations only for it to bite us in the ass; Iran is kind of a prime example.
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No we don't.

At worst, the record is mixed. People tend to only focus on the bad outcomes, especially the short-term ones, but success stories rarely make the news or the history books. There are PLENTY of counter-examples to the above.

We conquered and occupied Germany and put a friendly government in charge. To this day, they're economically powerful and solid allies.

We conquered and occupied Japan, same thing.

We occupied Korea and installed a Western-style government, and they are now an economic powerhouse and reliable ally for us.

We invaded Panama and took away their dictator... Panama is looking comparably stable at the moment.

There are many other examples. There are, of course, failures: Iraq Afghanistan. Bay of Pigs. A whole lot of stuff in South America. But we shouldn't throw up our hands and do nothing; that's the worst possible outcome.

There is going to be a power vacuum after the Iranian regime falls, and someone is going to fill it. We can either influence that, or have it revert back to status quo and have another entire generation of Hamas, Hezbollah, IRGC, Houti rebels... you name it.

Also, "installing governments" is not the same thing as "putting something in place." We put an arrangement in place with the most powerful warlord of Syria, vs. trying to drop an entire governing structure over top of it. Right now, the people seem to be calling for the return of a government run by a shah. We should help them get there, if for no other reason that if Iran is distracted with holding on to power domestically, it makes it a lot harder for them to interfere with, and attack, our interests overseas.
 
Our track record of understanding or caring about local cultures is horrible. That leads us to choosing the wrong puppet "democratically elected leader" for that country. We need to stay out of that business and let the locals play "choose your own destiny." Putting "our guy" into office isn't working in this day and age.
 
I think things get sporty given our specific history of Iran. I mean, we (royal 'we', along with MI6) did institute a coup in order to facilitate oil to the west. That guy may have worked out for us, but he was a mean bastard and paved the road to the other coup in 1979.

I agree with esteemed colleague @Marauder06 , I think our record is mixed.
 
AWP said:
Our track record of understanding or caring about local cultures is horrible. That leads us to choosing the wrong puppet "democratically elected leader" for that country. We need to stay out of that business and let the locals play "choose your own destiny." Putting "our guy" into office isn't working in this day and age.
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I don't think Dick Cheney or Donald Rumsfeld gave a flying fuck about culture. I think it can work when done right.
 
Devildoc said:
I think things get sporty given our specific history of Iran. I mean, we (royal 'we', along with MI6) did institute a coup in order to facilitate oil to the west. That guy may have worked out for us, but he was a mean bastard and paved the road to the other coup in 1979.

I agree with esteemed colleague @Marauder06 , I think our record is mixed.
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If I believe everything I read about that period, starting with "All The Shah's Men", it is highly likely that Iran would have become a pretty modern metropolis fairly aligned with the US. Mossadegh was a big fan of the US and the Shah was a pretty weak leader.
 
ThunderHorse said:
If I believe everything I read about that period, starting with "All The Shah's Men", it is highly likely that Iran would have become a pretty modern metropolis fairly aligned with the US. Mossadegh was a big fan of the US and the Shah was a pretty weak leader.
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Mossadegh and the Shah had a weird relationship, very much on again/off again until what, around 1950 or so, when he decided to go all nationalist. Some of Mossadegh's policies were pretty sporty and he hated the British (because of BP, et al.), which put us in a pickle. I think we should have just let Britain do their thing and not get involved, but here we are.
 

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