Kevin Tillman states to Congress that Pat was murdered

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Looon

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PUUUUUUUUTHETIC

http://www.cnn.com/



I have no respect for Kevin Tillman. According to him, his plt knew who they were shooting up. Pat was killed on purpose.:rolleyes:

Give me a fucking break.
 
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Boondocksaint375

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I was attempting to be open minded when Kevin spoke but I was watching it in disgust.
 

Paddlefoot

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I understand his grief, but that's over the top. For him to say that his brother was intentionally shot, with malice, by his own guys is just garbage. He should know better.

Still, nothing the Army puts out at this point is going to mitigate the circumstances surrounding the action and its aftermath. I don't know if they had been upfront from the beginning if it would have changed his opinion.
 

Paddlefoot

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I'm watching his testimony right now, did he actually say that he thought Pat was murdered?

I haven't heard him actually use those words yet, or been able to put it into context if he actually did say that.
 
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Looon

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I'm watching his testimony right now, did he actually say that he thought Pat was murdered?

I haven't heard him actually use those words yet, or been able to put it into context if he actually did say that.
He said something along the line of : "They knew they were firing on friendly's, then moved closer and kept firing!"
 

Paddlefoot

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The same media that ate all this stuff up when the original stories first broke are eating it all up again.

They're like Duke & Duke in Trading Places, they gain an advantage, at least in their own eyes, no matter which way these stories go.

Bunch of vultures.
 
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Looon

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The same media that ate all this stuff up when the original stories first broke are eating it all up again.

They're like Duke & Duke in Trading Places, they gain an advantage, at least in their own eyes, no matter which way these stories go.

Bunch of vultures.
Yeah, but I give Kevin all of the credit for this one.:2c:
 

Typhoon

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I don't know if they had been upfront from the beginning if it would have changed his opinion.
Unfortunately that is the problem. If the Army had been indeed up front about the incident, then it would have most likely ended the story right then and there. Maybe Kevin Tillman would have harbored the same ill feelings about the incident, but we wouldn't have had the media continuing to report adversarial stories about what happened. And of course every time a story gets filed it gives Kevin Tillman a platform. The Army needs to do a much better job of public relations. And the members of the media and public need to better understand the bad things happen in wartime, including friendly fire incidents that result in injuries or death.

The whole thing is a damn shame.
 

Paddlefoot

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Eyes said:
O' hell no, a Mortimer and Randolph reference.... :doh: :)

It's so true, though.

I didn't think to instruct my parents not to talk to the media when I deployed, but I never thought it would turn into the big deal that it did.

Long story short, mom talks to a columnist for the local rag, which had grown in circulation, and because we knew this woman (a brother's classmate) from growing up in the same neighborhood, my mother let down her guard. In the end, what was supposed to be a "feel good" human interest story had my mom starting to get emotional, to the point that she is actually quoted as saying "I didn't think it would turn into such a fiasco".:rolleyes:

Bear in mind, the article was written and published in November 1990, well before we knew we would be going to cross the border. I still, to this day, can't believe this columnist submitted it for publication, much less that it got past her editor. Whenever I see that bitch around town, she knows to tread lightly around me. She knows how pissed I was that she interviewed my mother.:mad:

A real morale builder for me. I can only imagine what my mother might have said if something had happened to me. I didn't send one of those "To be opened in the event of..." letters.

Everybody who deploys should have a little heart to heart with their loved ones to spell out exactly how you want them to comport themselves in the event something happens, and guidelines for dealing with the media regardless of that. You don't have to write any letters, I personally think they're a bad omen, but at least make sure they understand exactly how you want things handled, regardless of the how, why, or wheretofores of what happened.

Just my .02, from personal experience. The media can be a life sucking force, making a bad situation worse, regardless of the circumstances surrounding the situation. Like I said, they'll turn on a dime, and make a profit either way.
 

tova

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While I definitely feel for his brother and his grief, everyone involved in this tragedy is dealing with the loss and the cirumstances involved - instead of pointing fingers, they should be trying to heal, learn and move on.
 

MADMIKE175

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I haven't heard or seen the whole Kevin Tillman thing...but based on what I've heard I would say he's forgotten a few things...

Like:

Recognizing that I volunteered as a Ranger, fully knowing the hazards of my chosen profession, I will always endeavor to uphold the prestige, honor, and high esprit de corps of my Ranger Regiment.

and

Energetically will I meet the enemies of my country. I shall defeat them on the field of battle for I am better trained and will fight with all my might. Surrender is not a Ranger word. I will never leave a fallen comrade to fall into the hands of the enemy and under no circumstances will I ever embarrass my country.
 

pardus

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A tragedy compounded by lies.
The Army has a lot to answer for in this case.
 

Centermass

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The Army in part that covered this up has to account and answer for it.

Kevin Tillman, while a grieving brother, was nonetheless a Ranger.

And Mike hit the nail on the head. Really, nothing more be said.

What about the rest of his Brothers who are continuously bruised by his repeated remarks?

Sure, I could understand his frustration and anguish initially. But to take it from that point into one of what appears to clearly be an "agenda" makes me wonder.

I wonder how Pat would view all of this.

Probably the same as Sheehan's son.
 

RustyShackleford

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"under no circumstances will I ever embarrass my country"

Maybe Tillman's chain of command should have remembered this as well.

I remember the day Col. Bailey took command of 2/75. :rolleyes:
 

pardus

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The really sad thing about this is that it will forever be a stain on the 75th and the Army in general, as well as being much more painful for Pat's family.

I guess Kevin has just run with this, I wonder if he's actually sat down and thought about this as a Ranger, or is he so caught up in it he has tunnel vision?

Does anyone here know, Is he in contact with Rangers/part of Ranger associations etc...? or has he cut all ties with the military? Just be interested to know.

Judging by his use of words and the way he used certain words it certainly does seem he is on an agenda now, one that doesn't really gel with a brother solely trying to find the truth about his brothers death, he has expanded that somewhat into an anti war/administration crusade.

Sad.
 

MADMIKE175

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"under no circumstances will I ever embarrass my country"

Maybe Tillman's chain of command should have remembered this as well.

I remember the day Col. Bailey took command of 2/75. :rolleyes:

I was thinking the same, they have definitely fucked up.

That being said, in war people die sometimes by their own buds doing. The military owes it to the troops to be upfront, I can almost not believe some of the lies they've told...and for what?

Still :

Recognizing that I volunteered as a Ranger, fully knowing the hazards of my chosen profession, I will always endeavor to uphold the prestige, honor, and high esprit de corps of my Ranger Regiment.
 

Typhoon

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Everybody who deploys should have a little heart to heart with their loved ones to spell out exactly how you want them to comport themselves in the event something happens, and guidelines for dealing with the media regardless of that.
You make an excellent point, Paddlefoot. If I were in charge of the Army, this is one of the things that I would do with the parents. As a coach, even in high school, we have to be concerned with how to deal with the media for both ourselves as coaches and for any of our players that get interviewed post game. We always have a preseason meeting with parents to set up expectations of what their roles are with regards to their children participating in our program, and to make them aware of any procedures that they need to follow.

The same principles apply to the Army, although of course the stakes are much higher for the participants. I would make sure that parents understand what their roles are with their children, how to deal with any media coverage, OPSEC/PERSEC issues, and "what happens if your son/daughter..." Now I have no idea whether any of this is a current procedure, but that is how I believe it should be handled nonetheless... :2c:
 

pardus

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Still : Recognizing that I volunteered as a Ranger, fully knowing the hazards of my chosen profession, I will always endeavor to uphold the prestige, honor, and high esprit de corps of my Ranger Regiment.

Do you think maybe he feels he was let down and so therefore he is clear to do what he is doing?
Has he stated something along these lines to explain his actions/words?

I dont know, I'm asking, just thought about that when I read mikes post.
 
L

Looon

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Do you think maybe he feels he was let down and so therefore he is clear to do what he is doing?
Has he stated something along these lines to explain his actions/words?

I dont know, I'm asking, just thought about that when I read mikes post.
My plt was involved in something similar during OJC. Regardless of what I think about that situation, or how I think it was handled, it doesn't make a fuck. I still don't talk about it to this day.

As far as feeling betrayed, I know what that's like to, but I will never go to the fucking news and whine about how fucked up I think it was. I made a committment to the Regt and the Army not to disclose a fucking thing unless given permission by them. Whether I agree with it or not. I signed on the line to do the secret cool guy shit.

It's part of the package. IMO
 
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