Looking for new rifles.

I'm not an SR-25 or AR-10 FAN....once you've taken 800 yd head shots - hold left eye with the M24 floating barrel - Rem 700...IMHO..there's nothin better..

Yes, semi-auto is fast, not that much faster nor accurate...

By the time I had to wait for the recoil on a 24, I could have racked another round and been on the left eye just as fast, with more accuracy, with the M24/700....

For me, shooting the 25 was the same as shooting a long-range M-4...on which I had to wait for recoil for a double-tap.

You have to shoot the gun with some consistency to feel the difference.

That goes for pistol, rifle, shotgun...any nomenclature of arms..

:2c::evil:
 
RB's got a point.
I've heard of guys getting 2 rounds in the air at the same time (on their way to actually HITTING the target) with the 700 on longer ranges. Course they could have been blowing smoke up a nieve civillian's ass, too.
 
razor_baghdad said:
I'm not an SR-25 or AR-10 FAN....once you've taken 800 yd head shots - hold left eye with the M24 floating barrel - Rem 700...IMHO..there's nothin better..

Yes, semi-auto is fast, not that much faster nor accurate...

By the time I had to wait for the recoil on a 24, I could have racked another round and been on the left eye just as fast, with more accuracy, with the M24/700....

For me, shooting the 25 was the same as shooting a long-range M-4...on which I had to wait for recoil for a double-tap.

You have to shoot the gun with some consistency to feel the difference.

That goes for pistol, rifle, shotgun...any nomenclature of arms..

:2c::evil:
Click to expand...

arizonaguide said:
RB's got a point.
I've heard of guys getting 2 rounds in the air at the same time (on their way to actually HITTING the target) with the 700 on longer ranges. Course they could have been blowing smoke up a nieve civillian's ass, too.
Click to expand...

Watch this from 2:45 ;)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck66O0osLhQ&feature=related"]YouTube - TOP 10:Combat Rifles - Lee Enfield No4(No.3)[/ame]

And...

This is how it was done. They're all aimed shots and a good grouping. This chap was the winner of the LERA (Lee Enfireld Rifle Association)competition especially for 100 years of the SMLE taken on a military range in England.
Click to expand...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m1yN-3n0FU"]YouTube - LERA - Mad Minute - SMLE 100 Year Anniversary[/ame]
 
Razor: i understand it's not going to be as accurate, however 1) I already have a 700 sendero heavy barrel freefloated in 7 mag, probably rebarreling to 338 lapua.

2) this is a zombie invasion oh-shit the jackboots are coming for my guns a nuke went off in anchorage bug-out and keep people the fuck away from me gun.

Entering and clearing with a bolt action is not high on my list of recommended things to do. I have that option with an ar-10.
 
I agree with RB that a bolt has always been more accurate for true sniper work.

However the semi-auto is pretty darn accurate for a battle rifle and is also capable of dealing with more targets in a shorter amount of time without having to perfect the triangle (Form/Welds/Technique), (physic's=Ballistics/Env Calc's) and (ability).

A good marksman should be effective out in excess of 500 Meters with an AR or M1A type of semi-auto in 7.62(.308).

Granting the fact that truly remarkable shooters called snipers can do magic with a bolt gun and especially at longer distances (800 - 1000 and beyond).

But the fit needs to match the function. Me, I like the idea of having the ability to reach out and touch a target at extreme distances hence my SAKO in 7mm Mag with a top of the line scope or my Remington VSF in 22-250. But then I am only a paper puncher. With Camp Parry the only long range within reason my shooting is typically held to a 200 - 300 YD range about 30 minutes from home. So much for real long distance stuff.

But I think the OP is looking for a long distance battle rifle and not a 1000 Meter Widow Maker.

Personally I would be looking at the new .416 in the AR style rifle for a long shooter that is still Semi-Auto.

Personally I like the Stoner XM-110 for 7.62 NATO. This is strictly on NET research and articles. I have not seen one in person yet!
 
I'm not buying an oh-shit rifle in some frigging oddball caliber that I can't proquire from 98% of retail stores that carry firearms.

Walk down to walmart and tell me they have 416. What do they have? A crap pile of 308, 30-06, 300WM, 338 Winchester, .223 etc. Plan for resupply with ammunition that is common.

Exactly how much 7.62x39 is carried there vs "nato" ammunition or its civilian counterparts? Just something to think about.

Basically what I'm looking for is something that has the capacity to be able to hold a group on a standard silouette out to 600-700 meters. I can ping things at 500 with my AR all day, I want longer reach in a weapon system that is still capable of being used as a close quarters weapon, albeit not as easily as a CQM built 5.56 rifle with a min legal length barrel, etc.

Not to mention the fact that cover to 5.56 turns to concealment with 7.62 at specific ranges.

If i want/need to take the "long shot" then yes I'll transition to the bolt gun, I have one, it works, it's clean, it's upstairs in the pelican.

I don't NEED, or particularily want, another bolt gun.

I have an AR in 5.56. That's the wife's rifle once I purchase whatever this rifle ends up being and pimp it out appropriately.

the specifications are stated for a reason, there is a specific role that I am looking to fit with this weapon system in my personal tactical plan.

I appreciate the discussion, however.
 
Let's not get to excited. Every rifle and caliber has trade offs with pros and cons. No one thing does it all. I guess it is a guy thing, make a pickup in to a lowered sports car and a sports car into a raised 4 X 4.

What generally makes a long range shooter, takes the CQC out of the firearm and visa versa.

There are two parts the design of the rifle, what it takes to do what you want it do most. Then you have calibers to fulfill the needs of what you want.

If your capable of building what ever you want, then you can build that dream firearm. If not, then your limited to what is on the market.

For a 600 - 700 M rifle. accuracy? retained muzzle energy? are factors that need to be considered. There are reason CQC rifles are about the same, and long range shooters are similar.

A good read, is "Accurate Rifle".


In CQC a 6 inch group is still very very lethal when firing under 100M, at 50M it is within a 3 in circle.

Things that just cost more.

More accuracy,
less weight
less recoil with more retained muzzle energy
range, reach out an touch someone.

Most people will use a firearm for a range of different types of shooting, so that fire represents a compromise of needs. Few people actually have a firearm for a specific purpose. They can tune that firearm for the specific needs of one style of shooting. A person can not, have both in one rifle.

Over the years there have always been firearms that offered two barrels for different calibers, interchangeable barrels and accessories to adjust the firearm for a different need. They have never been very popular. Success has been varied. I think, people like simplicity over complexity. KISS is a well proven acronym.

My approach, seemed to work for me, own more not less (in firearms). If you have one firearm, know how to use it and know it limitations. If you need a room sweeper, buy the best room sweeper you can find. Don't expect it to compete with 1000M highly accurate rifles. (Visa versa too).

I am a strong believer that the most importance part of all of this, is the shooter.



Edited to add, one of the things I have noticed that is also a guy thing, is they some guys will buy all the gizzmos that they think it will make them a better shooter, rather than train themselves to be a better shooter. A person can buy the latest and coolest of all rifles ever made, that does not mean they will be a better shooter because they now own that rifle.
 
HOLLiS

"A person can buy the latest and coolest of all rifles ever made, that does not mean they will be a better shooter because they now own that rifle."

So very, very true!!! That was my Dad in a nut shell. He had firearms in his safe when he died that he never fired! But he had them!!! I guess that was his thing. I like to be able to shoot well and keep improving on that!!!

Now I just need to find someone who can teach me the 800 or 1000 Meter Shot here in Michigan!
 
Ranger Psych said:
I'm not buying an oh-shit rifle in some frigging oddball caliber that I can't proquire from 98% of retail stores that carry firearms.

Walk down to walmart and tell me they have 416. What do they have? A crap pile of 308, 30-06, 300WM, 338 Winchester, .223 etc. Plan for resupply with ammunition that is common.

Exactly how much 7.62x39 is carried there vs "nato" ammunition or its civilian counterparts? Just something to think about.

Basically what I'm looking for is something that has the capacity to be able to hold a group on a standard silouette out to 600-700 meters. I can ping things at 500 with my AR all day, I want longer reach in a weapon system that is still capable of being used as a close quarters weapon, albeit not as easily as a CQM built 5.56 rifle with a min legal length barrel, etc.

Not to mention the fact that cover to 5.56 turns to concealment with 7.62 at specific ranges.

If i want/need to take the "long shot" then yes I'll transition to the bolt gun, I have one, it works, it's clean, it's upstairs in the pelican.

I don't NEED, or particularily want, another bolt gun.

I have an AR in 5.56. That's the wife's rifle once I purchase whatever this rifle ends up being and pimp it out appropriately.

the specifications are stated for a reason, there is a specific role that I am looking to fit with this weapon system in my personal tactical plan.

I appreciate the discussion, however.
Click to expand...

The real question is HOW MUCH ($$$) are you willing to spend, and what is ACTUALLY still available between now and the upcoming ban (perhaps as soon as January?).
It's hard to advise with these unknowns.

I think you hit the nail on the head with that Panther that you had speced out, but it's a crap shoot to know if you'll get one before they're banned. For example, I'm already starting to look at Lever Action and Pump alternatives if I can't get the $$$/availability to line up properly in the remaining timeframe. Perhaps getting a 7.62 lower receiver/mags in the meantime. (if $$$/Availability).
 
Yeah, 2 local gun shops had about 15 or 20 AR's between them and they are ALL gone! Plus the local gun show must have had another 75 - 100 AR's and the only thing left where a couple Wild-Cat variants.

They also went thru 30 or 40 recievers. Ammo was gone by the time I got there Friday night.
 
Ranger Psych said:
I'm not buying an oh-shit rifle in some frigging oddball caliber that I can't proquire from 98% of retail stores that carry firearms.

223 and 308 got it, so why a .50 cal?

Walk down to walmart and tell me they have 416. What do they have? A crap pile of 308, 30-06, 300WM, 338 Winchester, .223 etc. Plan for resupply with ammunition that is common.

Ammo is going to get a lot harder to come by soon, start stocking now!

Exactly how much 7.62x39 is carried there vs "nato" ammunition or its civilian counterparts? Just something to think about.

Hop skip and jump down south and you can get all the 7.62 X 39 you will ever need…

Basically what I'm looking for is something that has the capacity to be able to hold a group on a standard silouette out to 600-700 meters.

NM AR15 A4 upper 1:8 twist free floating barrel, stainless air gauged in 20 inch length, Rock river lower with the RRA NM Two stage trigger. Top it with a standard mildot ranging optic of your choice (super sniper) makes a pretty good cheap 10X. Run MK262 Mod 1 in it and you will stay sub MOA out to 700-800 meters (if you are GTG on reading wind ;) )

I can ping things at 500 with my AR all day, I want longer reach in a weapon system that is still capable of being used as a close quarters weapon, albeit not as easily as a CQM built 5.56 rifle with a min legal length barrel, etc.

See above, I hold sub MOA with the same set up minus the optics, I like my irons. As for the CQM thing, buy a decent pistol if all your going to have is a LR gun. However the above can still be used for CQM if needed along with those Hi Speed 30 rd mags filled with the cheap ammo that fit your other AR

Not to mention the fact that cover to 5.56 turns to concealment with 7.62 at specific ranges.

Sooner or later someone has to move out from that cover. Build fire superiority, and then maneuver;) Sub MOA at 800 meters means less then 8 inches, thus meaning head shots are doable!

If i want/need to take the "long shot" then yes I'll transition to the bolt gun, I have one, it works, it's clean, it's upstairs in the pelican.

So why do you want another LR gun? If your just gun collecting get what ever you want, if you are replacing the bolt gun. How far do you really plan to shoot and what would you be shooting???

I don't NEED, or particularily want, another bolt gun.

I have an AR in 5.56. That's the wife's rifle once I purchase whatever this rifle ends up being and pimp it out appropriately.

the specifications are stated for a reason, there is a specific role that I am looking to fit with this weapon system in my personal tactical plan.

I am lost at what that might be, maybe your going to take a LR shot, in an urban area during a busy time frame and may face multiple personal threat levels as E&E out of the area? Maybe at close range, like indoors??? In this case I really do not want to know :D

I appreciate the discussion, however.
Click to expand...


I prefer the NM M14 for a semi 308!
 

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