Excellent thread, guys!
MarSOC battalion to take joint command
- Thread starter peefyloo
- Start date
nograndpas
Unverified
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2009
- Messages
- 7
maybe this sounds too simple and to the wind, but i say, let's wait and see how the next commandant steers this thing. to include tour length, MOS creation, and personnel numbers.
LongTabSigO
Verified SOF
Having said that, what I think many miss regarding these Task Forces is that SF units were built with this mission in mind. With relatively little supplement, any SF Battalion HQ is able to take on the SOTF mission; same-same with a Group HQ The other Services (and a lot of ARSOF) chose economy of force (to put it politely) and did not put forces against those missions.
No doubt about what you say. Especially about SF Battalions being most capable in the SOTF role. As you say they were designed that way.
So, maybe MARSOCs first time in the SOTF business is going to be tough. I can’t argue with that. I do not know in detail their staffing and C3 arrangements and I am vaguely familiar with the way SF runs them (mainly from Special Warfare articles).
But I got some points to make.
1) Marines have experience in complicated three dimensional expeditionary amphibious operations, obviously difficult to coordinate, and their MAGTF concept is considered very effective. It helps them a lot in Expeditionary C3.
2) Mostly their SOTF will control Marine Companies and I imagine they know how and have the means to do that.
3) By now it’s pretty obvious (if you put together pieces of open information and official comments) that long-term MARSOC aims to be an “expeditionary” SF-like force concentrated in certain areas of the world, more or less near the littorals.
So I bet you that this “first time” will aid them greatly in getting their version of an SF Battalion-SOTF (I am certain there is going to be a “Marine” version of it) together for next year.
After all, that’s what they did after their first SOF Company tours in Afghanistan during 2007. They redesigned them into a form that in a way resembles a SF company “task organised” with CS and CSS supporting elements (enablers and support as they call them)
I cant be specific (don’t have the info for that) but it seems that after 2007 they got a bit out of their ‘high tooth to tail ratio” mentality and their SOTF will have –at least broadly- comparable numbers regarding C3, CS and CSS capability, with a SF Battalion-SOTF.
By now they know what they want to do and I am pretty positive that they will make an effort to pull through without serious problems this first time, and to sustain their success , even if strains some of their “high demand low density” assets.
SCCO_Marine
Unverified
Informed... I like that.
So you know the MarSOC MSOB's full staffing... really?
What is it? What's their T/O??
How about an MSOC?
Your passing judgments on not just their present "building" structure but also their future structure when their Full Missions Capable.
Ok... What's their 2012 Full Missions Capable structure??
How many JSOTF's have you been a part of? How much time do you have in a SOF environment? An MSOC? An MSOB?
I'm not being a dick, but your profile is thin in regard to the above questions. LongTabSigO is quite familiar with a JSOTF, I think we'd like to know more about your involvement with them.
Without getting into the T/O of 1st and 2nd MSOB, refer to this post:
Long tab Sig O is not off the mark. This will probably end up working for a rotation but this is not sustainable. Committing to a battalion sized OIF rotation killed the recon battalions; I hope it does not have the same affect on MARSOC. To me this sounds like another 4th MEBism.
LongTabSigO
Verified SOF
I fear that the theme of this thread has devolved to "we hope they fail" which is far from the truth. Nothing would make me happier than to read about successful SOTFs run by other SOF units.
I just was pointing out that this SOTF mission is not just some hip-shot a unit does on a lark.
SCCO_Marine
Unverified
But you are being a dick. He made a statement that at full staffing (2012 staff) they would not be able to sustain a SOTF.
At present state, while building, they're borrowing support fr/the SF, his statement was even the future fully staffed structure would be insufficient.
How does he know? They haven't released what a fully staffed MSOB will even eventually look like b/c its still shaping up, & THAT'S THE POINT.
But you became a dick & not an Administrator when you tried to shift the focus to my profile b/c I asked a Q?, how does he know about something that has not been officially solidified. A valid Question?
It has & maybe that wasn't your intention but thats water under a bridge.
If you have comments about XY&Z say it, I'd like to hear it, it makes for good discussion. But if its conjecture say its conjecture & we can run w/it, if its fact same thing.
But if you state something as fact I'm going to ask why & how do you know, its nothing personal.
Here's how it works: you don't get to jump on someone and a statement, especially about a topic like this, without having some knowledge of said topic. Your profile indicates that you about 0 days in a SOF environment or on staff on a SOTF/ JSOTF/ CJSOTF. That being the case you are talking out of your ass and I would ask anyone in a similar situation to explain what background they possess to make such statements.
Valid questions met with attitude won’t fly around here. This isn’t the first time you’ve extended yourself far outside of your lane, even your fellow Marines are commenting on your behavior. You are embarrassing them.
7 days on the beach unless another staff member wants to make it longer.
LongTabSigO
Verified SOF
I'll pass on commenting on your ill-tempered remarks to Free except to say this - rudeness and crass comments do not strengthen your position (however well informed).
I am going to see what, if anything can be shared here (consistent with good OPSEC) in the way of updates to either support or refute our positions.
If anyone has an issue with SCCO's vacation, by all means, send myself or any other staff member a PM.
Back to the show.
Having done a number of JSOTF's in a training environment, and not knowing what the Corps does or does not have, I will say that you can't take a group of professionals and shoehorn them into a few buildings and call it good. You wouldn't think that a lot of "moving parts" exist, and indeed some sections are kind of on auto-pilot, but the comm requirements alone in a modern environment are pretty steep. Like it or not, we've evolved to a point where a number of support geeks are needed in such an enterprise to maximize the potential of the door kickers.
Back to the show.
Having done a number of JSOTF's in a training environment, and not knowing what the Corps does or does not have, I will say that you can't take a group of professionals and shoehorn them into a few buildings and call it good. You wouldn't think that a lot of "moving parts" exist, and indeed some sections are kind of on auto-pilot, but the comm requirements alone in a modern environment are pretty steep. Like it or not, we've evolved to a point where a number of support geeks are needed in such an enterprise to maximize the potential of the door kickers.
I can't agree with you more man, way too fast, this is going to be ugly here really soon.
Right now enlisted get 5 years and Os get 3 years, then we have to go back to the fleet or B billets, after wich we can come back. Its a recipe for complet failure, but the commandant and other senior leaders don't listen. It's a huge frustration to us all. I'm just now getting good at my job and now they want me to leave to go be a company gunny and hand out MREs for 4 years in a infantry BN so I can loose all the skill sets I'v busted my ass to aquire.
Yep, guys in my team, really quality dudes, are getting out because of this shit. It's fucking sad. Guys are turning down $90,000 tax free and getting out, and the command can't understand "Why?".
JimMCpog
Unverified
Hi, just wondering if the area they're responsible for will impact it in a positive way? Like northwest Afghanistan might be less dangerous than the northeast or southeast? Or will it be ugly regardless of where they are in Afghanistan.
JimMCpog
Unverified
http://neighborofchoice.org/article.php?aid=13381
http://www.marsoc.usmc.mil/news/Wrigley.htm
The second link does not include Sgt. Wrigley's career move.
Wow, looks like a conspiracy to me. I do not have resident knowledge because I am not in MARSOC but I know a few guys over there and I absolutely know what this current command regime is like. They are more worried about base beautification and Marines wearing uniforms properly than getting us the proper gear to execute our mission, whatever it may be. Here's an example, we just got a new sign in front of the Staff NCO club that cost $4,500. My unit asked for charging handle extenders for our M-4s/M16A4s. No money for it. Those things are $25 a piece at the most and we only wanted them for a little over one hundred Marines. WTF? I know the money for that sign comes from a different pot than the money needed for the charging handle extender but it all has to start somewhere before it is disseminated out. I personally thing today's military Army Navy Marine Corps, Air Force whatever you are in, is way too pampered. If you have ever been to a FOB in Iraq, you know what I am talking about. I was on a transition team over there and it used to make me sick to come on a FOB (the few times we did) and look at the crap made available to military members. Okay, I'll get off of my highhorse.
AMEN...
I found this second to last comment very comical as well - when I was in Al Asad, I used to refer to at MCRD Al Asad - an indoor pool...seriously? Ramadi was the best time because it was all in the dirt, but as far as spending goes - I also know that one of our base operations areas spent $2k on a TV to display one PowerPoint slide. Sadly enough, I do know how it works with finances and how they break it all up...use it or lose it.
