Military Fitness Brainstorming

[Lunch Pail]

Unrelated to my question above, but I have found some resources this past week I thought were worth sharing.

HES 403: Exercise Physiology - YouTube <-- This is a link to an individual's YouTube account who recorded an entire semester of an Exercise Physiology class. In the comments of the Intro Lecture video, he says it is from Colorado State University and the text book used is; Exercise Physiology: Human Bioenergetics & It's Application (Fourth Edition)" by George A. Brooks, Thomas D. Fahey, Kenneth M. Baldwin. So far, I have watched the first two lectures. After an overview, he begins with the macro-nutrients and how they produce ATP. So far, the professor is fairly entertaining and engages with the class often.

KinesiologyCollege <-- Not quite as formal and not sure of the source, but this is the homepage to a YouTube channel titled KinesiologyCollege. If you click the video tab and sort oldest-newest, there are a number of decent videos.

 

[DocIllinois]

@x SF med - Understood. I did not mention it in this question, but I have become a huge proponent of "pre-hab". In my foot injury thread, I mentioned this as one of the first things I learned from this site. While it could always improve, I perform a fairly comprehensive routine 4-5 times a week at night, alternating static stretching and foam rolling. I pay special attention to calf flexibility and rolling/stretching the IT band due to their relation to injuries commonly experienced in SOF pipelines. I have done this over the past year or so and my flexibility has improved drastically. Furthermore, the book I mentioned as next on my "to buy" list is authored by Kelly Starrett, the creator of MobilityWOD referenced a few posts above.

The main thing I am working on now is shoulder/chest mobility in order to perform a correct OH squat.

I concur with the Troll - flexibility and bendi-ness stuff is critical at the moment.


FWIW, I have been to some Infantry/ cool guy related schools at this point.

There were positively skinny guys in every class who could hang with the "cross-sectional area" muscle dudes in every way.

Lifting gym stuff was never an expectation during the training day (/night) that I can recall. (Lack of sleep/water/ nutrients may have occasionally placed the brain memory group into checkfire, though.)

G2 the shit out of any course you're about to undertake and design a well organized training plan accordingly.

My $.02.

 

[x SF med]

G2 the shit out of any course you're about to undertake and design a well organized training plan accordingly.

Doc, you did not just say this, did you? At least Not about selection type courses... because, you know that this advice is frowned upon here and on another site we both frequent...

NOTE to all - the requirements for all military Courses are out there, and you should get copies of pertinent information prior to attending, but hard G2ing of Selection Courses can get you removed from a course and impact your career negatively - either on the giving or receiving end of the G2... just to let you know...

@DocIllinois is 100% correct about functional strength over being a total gym muscle guy... balance the bulk with litheness... it will serve you best.

 

[Lunch Pail]

Thanks @DocIllinois. What you said makes a lot of sense. The reasoning behind my question is that I want to be formulating a plan to reach a good height/weight ratio that allows me to be strong, fast, and powerful while performing duties inherent to the job. I realize that I am not where I want to be and want to have an idea of where to begin. My goal is to be able to think for myself instead of just choosing random plans. As you mention in your post, it seems that training for a selection course or something similar is different than how those doing the job train. Right now, I am focusing on running, strength-endurance through calisthenics, and the occasional heavy squat, deadlift, weighted pullup, and kettlebell swing.

I used the term "muscle cross-sectional area" because if I simply used muscle size, I thought my intentions may be misconstrued towards bodybuilding. Most of my knowledge comes from Powerlifting/Strongman sources. Just so we are on the same page, this is a good summary of how I am thinking:

"Muscle strength in the adult human is relative to cross section
area (size). An equal cross-sectional area of muscle from any average
trained women or man has about the same 'strength' (i.e.: can generate the
same amount of force, 6 kg - cm2), there is very little variation. To put
it another way, generally speaking - all human muscle tissue has (about)
the same amount of strength, or is able to generate the same amount of
force. So the greater the size, cross-sectional, the greater the strength.
However, it is important to point out that bone structure, muscle
attachments, neural factors, etc., play a very important part in
performing 'feats of strength', so two people with equal cross section
areas of muscle may still perform very differently -- not due to stronger
muscle tissue, but due to other factors."

Therefore, my thought was that it would be a good idea to get on a hypertrophy program once I am assigned somewhere. I realize there may be some circumstances that might prevent this, but it never hurts to have a plan. The idea was to build the muscle and then capitalize on that with low-to-moderate volume, high intensity work. Pretty much a power-lifting periodization style, but instead of hypertrophy-->strength-->peaking, I was thinking hypertrophy-->strength-->work capacity as the 3 mesocycles. What @x SF med said is my goal, I am trying to figure out the steps.

My goal is not to be a Freak Beast

 

[DocIllinois]

Doc, you did not just say this, did you? At least Not about selection type courses... because, you know that this advice is frowned upon here and on another site we both frequent...

NOTE to all - the requirements for all military Courses are out there, and you should get copies of pertinent information prior to attending, but hard G2ing of Selection Courses can get you removed from a course and impact your career negatively - either on the giving or receiving end of the G2... just to let you know...

This is correct and I amend my statement accordingly. Gather intel from officially released information.

This personal policy of mine shouldn't be applied broadly to guide decisions or achieve outcomes.

 

[chocolateboy]

When people in military circles mention Kelly Starrett it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling in my belly, said fuzzy feeling tells me things are going to start looking brighter in military fitness.

 

[ThunderHorse]

My response to this article was...I already knew this stuff man...and so does the Army: Army physical (un)fitness: A system that promotes injury | ArmyTimes

 

[Dienekes]

I am reviving an older thread because the title and discussions were the most germane to what I'm posting. Plus, I'd honestly like to see it revived and to compare informed notes with people in better shape than me.

First off, I'd like to discuss what seems to have been a pretty massive change in the "functional fitness" industry over the past couple years to focus on training energy systems rather than specific things like strength, run times, etc. Something that has been highly touted is the concept of "building the aerobic engine" through LSS cardio but switching it up often to avoid overuse: bike, row, swim, heavy bag, jump rope, running. Purported benefits: specific cardiac adaptations which make you better at LSS, but also more efficient energy systems in tackling the more glycolytic and anaerobic CrossFit style stuff and faster recovery.

Secondly, I'd like to ask about an idea that I can't put a title too: making strength and conditioning separate and preventing creep. For example, most people will lower rest times or make 4 exercise supersets back to back which make the training more metabolic conditioning rather than strength-focused. Purported problems: sacrificing potential strength gains and stressing your system too often which results in feeling drained and eventual injury or forced deloading. Personally, I've noticed that I do get better body comp doing this short term but eventually just get way too drained to keep adding weight to the bar.

Many of the websites that I've followed to learn have suggested focusing primarily on aerobic work and maximal strength or alactic work (<10s efforts) with some lactic work (10-120s efforts) sprinkled in while avoiding going glycolytic very often (anything over 2 mins more strenuous than LSS).

Anecdotally, I had about a 6 week bout of the glycolytic-focused stuff and I was seriously drained at the end of the mesocycle, like bad. Then, I found this stuff about base building and had some serious gains in 6 weeks. I went from struggling to run 3 miles continuously to being able to run for an hour and reaching an 8:30 5-mile running only twice a week with 1 long ruck a week. Additionally, I couldn't hit 7km in 30 minutes rowing, and at the end of this mesocycle, I hit 15km in less than 70 mins (@7 on the Concept 2, not 10). Granted, over this time the strength work was put aside for very high rep, low weight stuff and calisthenics. This was the problem. Although I lost absolutely no strength and even gained some in multiple areas, I felt week as shit under the bar and in life in general. Body composition did get better as well under this, but that was likely the very focused diet.

Has anyone been able to hit a happy medium in their programming between strength and LSS? If so, how? Are you against LSS in so many areas because of the SAID principle? Do you generally shun LSS and still make solid gains at an acceptable pace?

Getting more into the details of this anecdote. During the second mesocycle, I conducted the LSS in the morning fasted with BCAAs after reading this study about the gains that can be made for men. I also had a lot of time on my hands and did THIS for recovery which could have made a massive difference. I definitely think that doing both contributed to my gains significantly.

Caveats about fasted training if you liked the study:
1. anything well over an hour such as a moderately heavy ruck over 6 miles will absolutely break you off, I wouldn't do it and don't suggest it.
2. Same for really high rep calisthenics over 45 mins and the like, it will make the workouts very difficult to finish

 

[runninrunninrunnin]

I agree. Easy efforts are the king. Throw in some manageable higher intensity efforts every week. Like 8x100m sprints with a full recovery or 3x1 @90% of max to keep neurological responses. THEN throw in the instense workouts when you want to be at peak fitness before an event, race, meet, etc.

One of the best lessons I’ve learned is that peak fitness doesn’t last for long!

Great post!

 

[Kheenbish]

Follow Soflete, they know their stuff. Even Olympic athletes have a coach. Drop the BCAAs they're overrated, pick up some whey protein and creatine from a reputable company for recovery.

 

[Dienekes]

I have whey, creatine, casein, track macros and eat clean-ish most of the time, do intermittent fasting and focus on meal timing. Hell I even drink that sleepy-time tea BS my girlfriend introduced me to to help me sleep better--honestly it ain't bad. Even SOFLETE sells a sleep aid supplement. I have the BCAAs because they have been proven to prevent excess protein breakdown during fasted training though effects are negligible under most other circumstances. I've done my best to nail down all the minor details, and I've made a lot of progress on the major ones like programming and diet. I'd just hoped to get the discussion going on programming again because it's fun to talk about and learn.

 

[runninrunninrunnin]

I lift and do calisthenics Mon, Wed, Friday. I’m in a caloric surplus at the moment so my focus is hyperthropy. Every other week I will include a heavy squat day and a deadlift day if I feel good.

I run 7 days a week with doubles (AM slow run, PM easy run) on Mon, Tues, Wed, Friday.
Since all my mileage right now is between 60-76% of max HR I do 8x100m strides @10-15 seconds below my mile pace on grass with a full recovery, to help maintain leg turnover. I do them Mon, Wed, Friday after the PM run. Thursday is a steady run. Saturday is a long run. Sunday is a short recovery run.

Ice baths and 15 minutes of static stretching 3-4 times a week.

Works for me. Everyone’s different, I’m sure someone will think my programming looks dumb. I’m sure I’ll think the same about theirs.

 

[ThunderHorse]

I am reviving an older thread because the title and discussions were the most germane to what I'm posting. Plus, I'd honestly like to see it revived and to compare informed notes with people in better shape than me.

First off, I'd like to discuss what seems to have been a pretty massive change in the "functional fitness" industry over the past couple years to focus on training energy systems rather than specific things like strength, run times, etc. Something that has been highly touted is the concept of "building the aerobic engine" through LSS cardio but switching it up often to avoid overuse: bike, row, swim, heavy bag, jump rope, running. Purported benefits: specific cardiac adaptations which make you better at LSS, but also more efficient energy systems in tackling the more glycolytic and anaerobic CrossFit style stuff and faster recovery.

Secondly, I'd like to ask about an idea that I can't put a title too: making strength and conditioning separate and preventing creep. For example, most people will lower rest times or make 4 exercise supersets back to back which make the training more metabolic conditioning rather than strength-focused. Purported problems: sacrificing potential strength gains and stressing your system too often which results in feeling drained and eventual injury or forced deloading. Personally, I've noticed that I do get better body comp doing this short term but eventually just get way too drained to keep adding weight to the bar.

Many of the websites that I've followed to learn have suggested focusing primarily on aerobic work and maximal strength or alactic work (<10s efforts) with some lactic work (10-120s efforts) sprinkled in while avoiding going glycolytic very often (anything over 2 mins more strenuous than LSS).

Anecdotally, I had about a 6 week bout of the glycolytic-focused stuff and I was seriously drained at the end of the mesocycle, like bad. Then, I found this stuff about base building and had some serious gains in 6 weeks. I went from struggling to run 3 miles continuously to being able to run for an hour and reaching an 8:30 5-mile running only twice a week with 1 long ruck a week. Additionally, I couldn't hit 7km in 30 minutes rowing, and at the end of this mesocycle, I hit 15km in less than 70 mins (@7 on the Concept 2, not 10). Granted, over this time the strength work was put aside for very high rep, low weight stuff and calisthenics. This was the problem. Although I lost absolutely no strength and even gained some in multiple areas, I felt week as shit under the bar and in life in general. Body composition did get better as well under this, but that was likely the very focused diet.

Has anyone been able to hit a happy medium in their programming between strength and LSS? If so, how? Are you against LSS in so many areas because of the SAID principle? Do you generally shun LSS and still make solid gains at an acceptable pace?

Getting more into the details of this anecdote. During the second mesocycle, I conducted the LSS in the morning fasted with BCAAs after reading this study about the gains that can be made for men. I also had a lot of time on my hands and did THIS for recovery which could have made a massive difference. I definitely think that doing both contributed to my gains significantly.

Caveats about fasted training if you liked the study:
1. anything well over an hour such as a moderately heavy ruck over 6 miles will absolutely break you off, I wouldn't do it and don't suggest it.
2. Same for really high rep calisthenics over 45 mins and the like, it will make the workouts very difficult to finish

That's a lot of shit to talk about. For the most part when I was a PL did all of the PT planning. We did some pretty insane stuff like a half mile of lunges...yeah my senior scout and I had some fun ideas about PT.

Most of PT in the Army will probably remain built around Aerobic fitness which isn't a bad thing. I always felt that the perfect soldier would look like a linebacker but be able to run marathons at a good clip...I happened to not be that genetically gifted.

We're all different. I always split the workouts because we could never get our hands on enough weights and most of my guys lifted in the evenings. We ran a lot, but we also alternated what we did. So I'd reserve a spin class ever two weeks or so and same with the pool. I tried to have at least three low-impact days per month. For weights I focused around power movements.

 

[Stretcher Jockey]

So since we are talking about fitness, Ill jump in and add my programing. Specifically I have been training for my second strongman competition which is this Saturday. My programing has been 4 days/week of strength, but in these workouts I have a section for adding in strongman specific movements (yokes, farmer carry, frame walks, etc.) or if Im not prepping for a comp, conditioning.

All of my strength training is a waved periodization based off a 1RM that gets tested every 9-18 weeks. Since the program is 9 weeks long, I either do it once or twice before I work up to a 1 rep again. Better for the long term in regards to joint health (which I then negate when I lift ridiculously heavy in my comps). I also add on a lot of recovery everyday to help relieve the musce soreness. Foam rolling, active recovery, and static stretching mainly, but also emphasizing good sleep habits and proper nutrition. I own a subscription to ROMWOD which is a crossfit affiliated yoga program. Crossfit you say? Disgusting! However the knowledge shared by them on recovery and stretching is actually very solid.

After I compete this weekend, I plan on doing my same strength routine but substituting in more running, biking, and swimming since I plan on doing a triathalon sometime within the next year. While Im not excedingly strong or fast, I can still run my mile and a half in 9:45, max out all the calisthenics, and comfortably run a sub 23 5k. Looking to pump those numbers up, but slow gainz are the goal here.

 

[Stretcher Jockey]

Update on my strongman competition:
Weighed in at 162 and was in the Novice Lightweight mens category.
Hit a PR on my log clean and press at 160.
PR on my deadlift at 405.
Had the soul sucked out of my body on a 20ft 500lb yoke.
Placed 4th on a 350lb frame carry 40ft in 6.21 seconds.
Overall was top 5 in my weight class. Doesnt feel too bad though since top 3 were all over 180 and their numbers werent too far away from mine. Because it was the novice category, the max BW allowed was 220 and the guy who won was definitely up there. Overall, 2 PRs and a good showing in the other 2 events. Time for a week of rest, and training for my first triathalon. Hope everyone had a solid weekend of either training or boozing.

 

[Dienekes]

Looking at some of the more experienced members here, What are some of the benchmarks with which you assess your fitness. Do you use stuff out of MTI (the old MA), UBRR, etc., or do you have some specific work capacity events, not too technical CrossFit workouts, or anything not commonly thought of? I'm looking for a solid couple of tests that I can use to assess my fitness and track changes over time outside of the typical 1 rep maxes and 5k run, X mile ruck. Obviously those have their uses, but I'm thinking something along the lines of work capacity, stamina, and power endurance that may not be so widely known. So far I'm thinking:

3RM of the typical lifts including weighted dips and pullups (I've found that a 5RM doesn't accurately assess ability to explode out of the bottom with heavier weight and 1RM doesn't accurately predict strength endurance: at one point in time I pulled 325 for 10 but could only get 365 off the ground)
100m Farmer Carry find max weight- maybe lengthen the distance? I would use a yoke but I've never even seen one
5k Run- maybe a 10k?
3hr ruck @ 45lb plus water for distance
2k Row- low impact test for continuous work capacity and speed endurance
MURPH for best time- short running and high rep calisthenics for muscular endurance (no vest as I don't have one)
OPT Repeatability Test-3 rounds- find total work time- ability to recover or "come back and do it again"

• Row 250m
• 10 Kettlebell Swings 70/53lbs
• 10 Burpees
• 10 Kettlebell Swings 70/53lbs
• 10 Burpees
• 10 Kettlebell Swings 70/53lbs
• Row 250m
• Rest 12 minutes between rounds.

Anything that the experienced/"in killer shape" people think could be subbed out for something better? I'm sure there are many, and I'll be throwing in things like KBs, maybe Olympic lifts, etc. in training, but I don't want to spend much time drilling skills or technique when I can only learn some things from YouTube videos and could spend time on more appropriate things.

 

[CDG]

Mountain Tactical has several tests. The new Tier 2 OFT from the Air Force is a good test as well. MTI has a plan for it.

 

[Devildoc]

@Dienekes , one's metrics should reflect one's goals. What are your goals?

As I am almost 50 with spinal compression fractures and herniated disc, my goals are functional fitness, weight maintenance, and cardiovascular health; so my metrics are based around activities that support those.

That said, when I was a young buck doing the things you mentioned, I just kept a log and kept track of the times/weights. If I noticed times starting to lag or inability to increase weight, I would focus on those areas. I used commonly-available statistics and monitored: if the mean for a 5K run for a 180-pound 45-year-old male is 21 minutes, and I was OK with being 1 or two SDs from the mean, I would set up my running workout to pound out a 5K in 22:30.