National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (please review page 1)

[Cookie_]

I agree that an actual vest is unlikely, but there are a lot of backpacks in those videos that won’t get a second look.

Very good point.

If they are willing to escalate to an IED of any sort, they won't care about the "crowds".

Well yes and no, right? Like inherently anyone clacking off explosives doesn't care about crowds, but there is a difference between targets and desired outcomes.

An accelerationist anarchist might pop off a vest because doesn't matter who gets got; the chaos is "the point".

Some ANTIFA/similar person would likely want to target LEOs/Feds more directly, because the hope would be that it galvanizes the protestors left to take up arms. They'd be looking for a martyr moment, which is hard if your victims are mostly your own people.
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Best case scenario is nothing happens and shit cools off before hand, but I'm doubtful it will.

 

[AWP]

The great thing about the GWOT is how many Americans were exposed to some of the worst tools a terrorist could use. Not just "Hey, you can make a belt and set it off" but "here's how you make a belt or vest or conceal explosives in a dump truck to look like ordinary rocks."

It's only a matter of time before a VBIED or Backpack IED is clacked off. Maybe not in this spasm of violence, but that day is coming.

 

[amlove21]

Very good point.



Well yes and no, right? Like inherently anyone clacking off explosives doesn't care about crowds, but there is a difference between targets and desired outcomes.

An accelerationist anarchist might pop off a vest because doesn't matter who gets got; the chaos is "the point".

Some ANTIFA/similar person would likely want to target LEOs/Feds more directly, because the hope would be that it galvanizes the protestors left to take up arms. They'd be looking for a martyr moment, which is hard if your victims are mostly your own people.
--------

Best case scenario is nothing happens and shit cools off before hand, but I'm doubtful it will.

I am not worried about the rank and file AWFL's and beta male soy boys.

I am worried bout the 10-15M people (mostly MAM's) that flooded the border 21-24 that want to capitalize on unrest for their ideological beliefs. We know that cells are operating nationwide, and that there is mass vulnerability for bad actors of all bends to be at these protests.

 

[Jaknight]

The fact that they wave foreign flags is just stupid, given they’re protesting being sent back there. However, I don’t like how ICE is handling this, and to be honest, I feel this isn’t really about law and order for Trump and company it’s about owning the libs and keeping things distracted. I also think this is going to hurt the GOP in the long run.

 

[amlove21]

The fact that they wave foreign flags is just stupid, given they’re protesting being sent back there. However, I don’t like how ICE is handling this, and to be honest, I feel this isn’t really about law and order for Trump and company it’s about owning the libs and keeping things distracted. I also think this is going to hurt the GOP in the long run.

You are in the minority of America by polling data. DJT ran on mass deportations and removing illegals, he was elected on it by a plurality of Americans and the electoral college, we asked nicely, we offered $1k to self deport and resettle. Actions have very real consequences- I dobn't know how many conservatives you talk to on a daily basis, but this doesn't "hurt" the GOP.

California is what California is. And when Portland, NY, Seattle all follow suit in the coming days- you think that hurts the GOP? The GOP is so busy clipping content for political adds I am not sure they'll hear this milquetoast take on "political optics in the future".

In your opinion, how *should* ICE be "handling this*?

Anything to say about the LEO's injured? Anything to say about the looting? Anything to say about the attack on a federal building? Anything to say about setting vehicles on fire? Or is that all because ICE is mean and Donald Trump is escalating things?

 

[Cookie_]

The fact that they wave foreign flags is just stupid, given they’re protesting being sent back there. However, I don’t like how ICE is handling this, and to be honest, I feel this isn’t really about law and order for Trump and company it’s about owning the libs and keeping things distracted. I also think this is going to hurt the GOP in the long run.

I agree with you're general assessment, but disagree it hurts the GOP.

I was responding to this as @amlove21 responded. He pretty much nails down my assessment of how the GOP sees this.

In your opinion, how *should* ICE be "handling this*?

My criticism of the current methods ICE is using are similar to my criticisms when the Admin started with the federal worker "RIF in all but name". They're trying to sprint to an end goal, which increases the risk of dumbass mistakes, which furthers massive pushbacks.

Hell, ICE detained a Marshall a few days ago because he "Fit the general description" of someone they were looking for in a fed building.
I have issues with plainsclothes agents detaining people Who are US citizens.

The self-deportation program is a great idea, which is probably safer and cheaper for all parties involved.

If I were the admin/ICE:

"If you are in this country illegally, you have until XX July to begin the self-deportatiotime frame.
ICE will continue to conduct target removal of those with criminal histories during this timeframe.
If you have not initiated that process by this date, you will be arrested and removed by ICE."

Set a firm date on getting self-deportation numbers up and control the narrative that ICE is removing the worst of the worst. There will still be protests, but they(feds) get to paint themselves in a much better light overall.

 

[Jaknight]

You are in the minority of America by polling data. DJT ran on mass deportations and removing illegals, he was elected on it by a plurality of Americans and the electoral college, we asked nicely, we offered $1k to self deport and resettle. Actions have very real consequences- I dobn't know how many conservatives you talk to on a daily basis, but this doesn't "hurt" the GOP.

California is what California is. And when Portland, NY, Seattle all follow suit in the coming days- you think that hurts the GOP? The GOP is so busy clipping content for political adds I am not sure they'll hear this milquetoast take on "political optics in the future".

In your opinion, how *should* ICE be "handling this*?

Anything to say about the LEO's injured? Anything to say about the looting? Anything to say about the attack on a federal building? Anything to say about setting vehicles on fire? Or is that all because ICE is mean and Donald Trump is escalating things?

Many people thought he’d be targeting violent and dangerous criminals not raiding schools and grabbing parents. I’m sure the GOP feels confident now, but a lot of those Latin kids are going to remember it was the GOP behind the raids. And when they reach voting age, who do you think they’re going to support?

As for how ICE should handle it? For starters, stop wearing camo uniforms. Speak to the public. Don’t just go running around schools and Home Depots that’s all theater. I doubt everyone they’re picking up is some hardcore gangster.

As for the LEO who got hurt that sucks, and I hope they’re okay. The protestors also need to chill don’t escalate, and don’t wave the flag of another country. There’s a better way to fight this, and to me, that’s at the voting booth.

 

[ThunderHorse]

What we saw from the St Floyd Riots was that IEDs could totally be used (they were) just not to any MASCAL effect. These assholes burned down buildings, blew up cop cars, burned police precincts, took over police precincts, which is crazy because I saw a movie about that once. In fact they made it twice.

It doesn't matter, the leftists will riot, the leftists will loot, and you will still vote for who you want regardless of the consequence that creates for this country.

 

[AWP]

"Escalating"... the easiest way to escalate something is to start yelling and fear mongering. Emotional arguments give you emotional results.

 

[amlove21]

Many people thought he’d be targeting violent and dangerous criminals not raiding schools and grabbing parents. I’m sure the GOP feels confident now, but a lot of those Latin kids are going to remember it was the GOP behind the raids. And when they reach voting age, who do you think they’re going to support?

As for how ICE should handle it? For starters, stop wearing camo uniforms. Speak to the public. Don’t just go running around schools and Home Depots that’s all theater. I doubt everyone they’re picking up is some hardcore gangster.

As for the LEO who got hurt that sucks, and I hope they’re okay. The protestors also need to chill don’t escalate, and don’t wave the flag of another country. There’s a better way to fight this, and to me, that’s at the voting booth.

Full disagree.

We didn't just show up at this exact moment in time. Tom Homan, Kristi Noem, and everyone else have been "speaking" to the community for months. They were labeled fascists, racists, xenophobes and all the rest. Their character was assassinated in the media and elected officials openly defied the federal government on this issue. That very community that somehow now deserves measured and soft-voiced conversation are the ones burning the American flag, waving Mexican flags, and hurling concrete (hitting officers in the head) at people trying to quell these riots. Armed drug and human traffickers, sexual predators, and violent humans are the "community" we are now supposed to treat with kid gloves, while they burn LA to the ground?


I reject your appeal to emotion about going into schools and grabbing parents- they violated the law coming here, they're illegal, we the people voted to for deportations of illegal immigrants. Those parents put their children at risk, if anything. Not only because they've violated and desecrated the law of the US and the constitution, but because this has a very real impact on our voting rights and election processes via including those illegals in the census. I think this is the 10th time I have said this, and I will keep saying it, because that vote of yours you are so protective of is diluted by the people in those schools and those parents. States like Cali (and other sanctuary states) not only earmark nearly hundreds of billions of your tax dollars to perpetuate this problem, those states are then granted outsize power in our system thanks to counting those illegals in the census for congressional seats.

I reject your opinion about what type of uniform the enforcement agency wears. This could have been handled by guys in suits talking softly in '21. It wasn't. ICE agents are being doxxed, shot at, and worse and you want them to wear- what? Something that doesn't trigger the illegal immigrants?

To your bolded above- good. They can support whatever marxist, soliciast regime they'd like from their country of origin. It makes no never mind to me. Sounds like a future problem you couldn't possibly even support with data you're making up about the feelings of children, but you do you.

BL- this is all just suicidal empathy. I will not be empathetic to the plights of illegals to our own demise. The barbarians are at the gate, and you wanna talk about what clothes we are wearing and how not to offend the kids of illegal immigrants while Los Angeles burns at the hand of funded, organized riots and full on domestic terrorism? Miss me.

-5

 

[amlove21]

I agree with you're general assessment, but disagree it hurts the GOP.

I was responding to this as @amlove21 responded. He pretty much nails down my assessment of how the GOP sees this.



My criticism of the current methods ICE is using are similar to my criticisms when the Admin started with the federal worker "RIF in all but name". They're trying to sprint to an end goal, which increases the risk of dumbass mistakes, which furthers massive pushbacks.

Hell, ICE detained a Marshall a few days ago because he "Fit the general description" of someone they were looking for in a fed building.
I have issues with plainsclothes agents detaining people Who are US citizens.

The self-deportation program is a great idea, which is probably safer and cheaper for all parties involved.

If I were the admin/ICE:

"If you are in this country illegally, you have until XX July to begin the self-deportatiotime frame.
ICE will continue to conduct target removal of those with criminal histories during this timeframe.
If you have not initiated that process by this date, you will be arrested and removed by ICE."

Set a firm date on getting self-deportation numbers up and control the narrative that ICE is removing the worst of the worst. There will still be protests, but they(feds) get to paint themselves in a much better light overall.

How did Catch and Release work for us up until now?

 

[TLDR20]

How many American citizens need to be illegally detained by ICE until it is too many? Serious question? Is it one? 100? 1000? Is it worth it to trample the rights of citizens to catch non citizens? I don’t think so.

 

[TLDR20]

I am sitting at lunch right now, I could not prove I was an American citizen as I sit here.

 

[757]

Many people thought he’d be targeting violent and dangerous criminals not raiding schools and grabbing parents. I’m sure the GOP feels confident now, but a lot of those Latin kids are going to remember it was the GOP behind the raids. And when they reach voting age, who do you think they’re going to support?

When Trump said he was going to deport illegal aliens, I took him as literally as possible. That means, If you broke the law and entered this nation illegally, you were going to be deported if found.

Now, would I rather have the "additional" criminal elements deported first vs. Juan the construction worker? Sure. But, at the end of the day, these people broke the law and for the sake of the "equal application of the law" principle, justice must be served.

Now in the past, illegal aliens gained, essentially, nothing from outing themselves. Luckily, DHS instituted the "self deport system" which not only gives you enough money to pay for your citizenship fee if you decided to re-apply in the future, it gives you the opportunity to do it the correct way. I personally am very grateful for this system, because it actually provides a sort of rehabilitate element to illegals who actually want to become citizens but really didn't have a straightforward path previously.

As for future voting demographics, I care more about upholding the rule of law than I do about how people may vote to be perfectly frank. In a similar fashion to what Dave said, If you want to change the laws, then change the laws. For the record, I am "pro-immigration reform," I am not "ignore the law because I don't like the effects of it."

For what it's worth, Hispanic polling in 2024 only hit 53% when it came to providing a path to citizenship to those who were in country illegally. Contrast that to 82% who want a crackdown on human smuggling at the southern border.

 

[amlove21]

How many American citizens need to be illegally detained by ICE until it is too many? Serious question? Is it one? 100? 1000? Is it worth it to trample the rights of citizens to catch non citizens? I don’t think so.

Woof. Well, the limit doesn't exist.

Let's do this, if we are playing the slippery slope/appeal to emotion/false equivalency game.

"How many American women like Laken Riley need to be raped and murdered by illegal immigrants before we remove all illegal immigrants from America, using whatever means necessary? Is it one? 100? 1000? Is it worth it to temporarily detain and then release Citizens to deport violent rapists and murderes here illegally? I think so."

Just take whatever response you've got, and apply it to your question, they're exactly same.

 

[amlove21]

I am sitting at lunch right now, I could not prove I was an American citizen as I sit here.

Can you explain what you mean? That's confusing.

 

[TLDR20]

Can you explain what you mean? That's confusing.

If I was approached right now, by agents of Immigration and Customs, I could not prove I’m an American citizen.

 

[TLDR20]

Woof. Well, the limit doesn't exist.

Let's do this, if we are playing the slippery slope/appeal to emotion/false equivalency game.

"How many American women like Laken Riley need to be raped and murdered by illegal immigrants before we remove all illegal immigrants from America, using whatever means necessary? Is it one? 100? 1000? Is it worth it to temporarily detain and then release Citizens to deport violent rapists and murderes here illegally? I think so."

Just take whatever response you've got, and apply it to your question, they're exactly same.

You are okay with the government detaining you until you’ve proven you are an American citizen?

I don’t carry my birth certificate or passport with me. Other than those two things how can I prove I am a citizen? I’m not willing to sacrifice an inch of my 4th amendment rights so that we can deport illegal immigrants. It is just too “show me your papers” for me to agree to anything like that. That is what is happening. It has been happening for decades at BP checkpoints in Border regions, and now they are going out and just arresting/detaining people, and putting the burden of proof on them. It is not right.

 

[ThunderHorse]

I am sitting at lunch right now, I could not prove I was an American citizen as I sit here.

So, you don't have a birth certificate or a Passport? Passports clearly say whether you are an American Citizen. And if you haven't also requested a Passport card on renewal of your passport...my brother it's helpful AF.

 

[TLDR20]

So, you don't have a birth certificate or a Passport? Passports clearly say whether you are an American Citizen. And if you haven't also requested a Passport card on renewal of your passport...my brother it's helpful AF.

Like I said, sitting at a Mexican restaurant, I don’t have my passport or birth certificate. I don’t think 99.9% of Americans keep those things on them.