http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4335160...t/dim-if-not-dismal-future-gates-blasts-nato/
This is kind of a stunning pronouncement by a sitting SECDEF. :eek:
This is kind of a stunning pronouncement by a sitting SECDEF. :eek:
NATO, RIP?
- Thread starter Marauder06
- Start date
We've all known it's been coming, it's just a matter of what acronym we'll use to replace it that would strike fear in our enemies. ;) COW -Coalition Of the Willing
I can't see how we can let go of NATO and keep the United Nations. I am sure we should quit funding any more than 1/28th of the cost of NATO but it has some good points. The NATO standard for munitions is a very good thing in my opinion. From a supply chain management position that standardization alone makes forward movement of troops easier to support. This board is full of intelligent people could one of you please tell me just one good aspect of the United Nations?
Are we headed for isolationism?
Are we headed for isolationism?
Stay part of NATO, but reduce our spending from 75% to 25% of the total and see if the organization survives.
Seriously, NATO has outlived it's usefulness. Sadly, we can't leave and justify European Bases to Congress and the Masses.
Seriously, NATO has outlived it's usefulness. Sadly, we can't leave and justify European Bases to Congress and the Masses.
I say dump both NATO and the UN. I'd like to see us, as SOWT proposed, cut our support to NATO, but that won't happen. NATO needs to learn that while we're in this together, you can't push the US to take the driver's seat and then complain about the driving.
As to Manolito's thoughts on isolationism: I think we could, if we chose, to be more unilateral. We NEED to be involved in the world's affairs, a nation has a responsibility to it's citizens to look after the country's interests wherever they may be, but we cannot allow our relationships with other nations to hamper our options.
As to Manolito's thoughts on isolationism: I think we could, if we chose, to be more unilateral. We NEED to be involved in the world's affairs, a nation has a responsibility to it's citizens to look after the country's interests wherever they may be, but we cannot allow our relationships with other nations to hamper our options.
Dump NATO?... mmm very dangerous for USA... you should abandon all european military bases, to rinounce to the mediterranean and its sphere of influence... is strategic for you? I don't think so....
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In fairness, it's not surprising that Gates would have such an outlook.
All members of NATO benefit from membership, however, only a small number of those nations could really say they're pulling their weight when it comes to NATO Ops. Nations can only spend money and have troops die for so long before the question of "Are the others really doing all they can?" is going to be asked.
All members of NATO benefit from membership, however, only a small number of those nations could really say they're pulling their weight when it comes to NATO Ops. Nations can only spend money and have troops die for so long before the question of "Are the others really doing all they can?" is going to be asked.
B
Boon
Guest
I'd rather see NATO reformed and the UN dumped.
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If you dump the UN... Who's gonna write the angry letters?
NO no no! The UN is never angry..I think you mean "sternly worded letters".
I got to listen to part of the speech today on C-Span radio while I was driving home. Pretty harsh speech. I also thought it was ironic that he was telling the NATO countries that they need to increase their military budgets, while we're talking about cutting things like pay and benefits. :-|
Speaking in Brussels in his final policy speech as Pentagon chief, Gates said: "The mightiest military alliance in history is only 11 weeks into an operation against a poorly armed regime in a sparsely populated country.
"Yet many allies are beginning to run short of munitions, requiring the US, once more, to make up the difference."
(From Al Jazeera quoting from Gates speech)
Pretty much a reality check.
"Yet many allies are beginning to run short of munitions, requiring the US, once more, to make up the difference."
(From Al Jazeera quoting from Gates speech)
Pretty much a reality check.
The UN, minus the Security Council, does some good work on occasion. It's the SC which needs reforming, and badly.
As for NATO, we were discussing it in class the other day as it happens. An interesting point someone made was "if the Russians aren't supposedly the threat they are today, who is NATO aligned against? Is there a need for it at all now the Soviets are gone?"
I thought it was interesting anyway.
As for NATO, we were discussing it in class the other day as it happens. An interesting point someone made was "if the Russians aren't supposedly the threat they are today, who is NATO aligned against? Is there a need for it at all now the Soviets are gone?"
I thought it was interesting anyway.
Very valid points, but at the same time NATO is currently "The US, the UK, and some other guys" so the only major items the other nations bring to the table are land and sea lanes. That's the only real bargaining chip some NATO countries have: bases and overfly rights. Meanwhile all of the nations seem to act as though we're all equals in NATO which we clearly are not.
AUSCANZUKUS...
After working with your RAAF and Navy types plus the Canadians and some UK RAF folks....I encourage partnering with the Commonwealth.
There are 28 nations in NATO and I think any common ground those 28 have is good for us in the long run. I would ask is NATO that bad or are we just broke and looking to get out of some of our bills? It appears a lot like Medicare and social security. The only time they are an issue is when we spend ourselves into a whole and look to those programs as possible money trees. This is the same thing that is going to happen to the military and what we have seen in the police and fire community. Fix the borders, stop paying subsistence to every second american even if they have never held a job and all the rest of this would shake out just fine. Put prisoners to work maintaining the infrastructure, put welfare recipients to work cleaning parks and public areas eight hours a day just like the rest of us work.
Sorry
Sorry
Dear friends... are not peanuts... but the bases of international treaty... absolutely strategic for you AUSCANZUKUS (a little bit out of european and meddle-est and north-africa and and and AOs)... isn't it? We (I speak about my country) today deploy over 7.000 units all over the world and believe me thanks to Silvio... italian communists don't want army, don't want USA don't want Israel.... think about it dear friends...
