I would have thought that people who could pass in the first place where the minority.
Navy SEALs seek minority candidates
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TLDR20
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Good point
With the huge number of FPS games out there that extoll the virtues of being a SEAL, SF, Recon, PJ, CCT, yada yada... The marketing issue has been taken on by the games amnufacturers, the issue is the reality of what it takes to actually get out there and allow the chance of failure in selection. IMHO, if you got the stuff, you'll try, if you want the glory only, you'll fail. In my pre-Phase Class (what became prep and selection), we had one guy that was a rock, but we worked with him until he could pass the swim test, IIRC, he ended up on a dive Team a couple of years later and became a real fish.
Race is irrelevant, it's desire and ability.
Race is irrelevant, it's desire and ability.
Diversity can be an asset as long as standards are not lowered. There is only a problem when it becomes "diversity for the sake of diversity." Diverse backgrounds, skillsets, opinions, etc. can be useful if they can contribute to the overall mission. I don't have a problem with the military targeting a specific group for recruitment for a specific field, as long as standards of the profession are maintained and other qualified applicants aren't excluded as a result.
Scotth
Verified Military
To echo Mara a little, if the standards remains the same what is the problem with targeted recruitment efforts? When standards are changed to accommodate diverse canidates thats when the problems start.
KBar666
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Your only good on Pizza !!...................................................Canadian bacon, couph, couph !!
Seriously,
Most Marines, Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen can't make this grade. I don't care who you are or what you've been, you probably don't have what it takes to cut all 3 phases of BUD/S Add in SEAL TT, Freefall, BAC etc.
Like the man said, if you can cut the mustard your in and your an SO with NSW, if not, your on the fleet.
Here's my Bold statement
Diversity or not, there are people on this board that hold the Green Title of SOF under their screen name. They cannot or will not ever make it through BUD/S. It's a fact, live with it.
We have minorities that are SOF on this board. They all made their grades. Hold their heads up high and deliver high performance to their Teams.
You can't recruit based on color alone.
First off, not on topic but whats BAC? I ask cause I'm leaving in a few months with an contract.
Also not sure how serious this is in way of how "diverse" you must be cause when I was meeting with my recruiter he was basiclly like" ok race, what you got?" I was like---"ahhh white" and he goes " you sure thats all anything at all anything?" I said well my grandfather was like half indian and he goes" great, white and Native American it is" So aside from that being incrediblly dumb story I think its more or less so they can say yeah we're "diverse" cause trust me I don't look any bit Indian.
Basic Airborne Course, or Blood Alcohol Content. For most here, both usages apply accordingly.......lol
As if minorities didnt already know the SEALs (or other SOF units) existed... I call BULLSHIT.
The issue here is a lack of drive/motivation.
Those who have what it takes apply; those who dont make excuses.
And while we are speaking of being under represented in a field/specialty, I want to know why there arent more caucasians in the S1 shop... ;)
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You're calling bullshit on a claim not being made. The problem as stated by the article is not lack of awareness of SOF, but lack of role models and lack of support from their own communities to apply. Knowing the SEALs exist and what they do aren't the noted issues.
The caucasians lack the administrative/personnel skillz... I don't trust them with my records. ;)
Oh no.. no no no... I hope for SEALS no... most operations are conducted in foreign states, covert, black, or clandestine operations... terrorists or foreign intelligence operators could infiltrate in teams. Absolutely NO WE CAN'T!
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN....
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN....
8
8'Duece
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Did he say "Soul brother Ranger?" :confused:
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Uh... mike_cos... these are Americans. They're not opening recruitment to the ANA or some shit like that... Have you read Jawbreaker?
Thinking that some "foreign agent" is going to slip through the pipeline is fantasy at best, racebaiting at worst.
So I do know what you mean, but you're off-base.
Thinking that some "foreign agent" is going to slip through the pipeline is fantasy at best, racebaiting at worst.
So I do know what you mean, but you're off-base.
Again, it comes back to a lack of personal drive DD. Those who have it seek out the opportunity...
Furthermore, why do they need race-related role models? Those who have worn the Trident before them (those looking to find a reason) should be enough regardless of race; I know it was for me when I came to SF.
If a guy needs more motivation (outside sources) than that I wouldnt want him in my team room...
Crip
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I wish I would've know that there were SF guys who lived in trailers as kids. Man, if I would've know that there were people in SF who had so much in common with me, it would've given me the motivation to make it through the Q Course...
Wait, I didn't need any external motivators.
Wait, I didn't need any external motivators.
After Assange's gate i aspect all... or 9/11.... or brits terrorists (english of course) I think the matter is more complicated and deserve more attention. To serve in Navy Seal for me is not a job, but a privilege, that cannot be subjected to ridiculous odds of political correct. But maybe i'm wrong....
policemedic
Verified SWAT
I disagree.
I would posit that there are a tremendous number of role models in the SEALs. That is to say that every SEAL, past and present, is a role model for those interested in entering the NSW community (and for those outside the SOF community as well). Many of these warriors are minorities, and I would bet their contributions to NSW and our national security are disproportionate to the percentage of SEALs they comprise. When the government implies that a role model must look like the person they are to inspire, it is simply perpetuating fallacious thinking. I think this theory also fails to empower people (and isn't that what we're trying to do?) while at the same time injecting bias into the equation.
I also think it's slightly pejorative- we know you could have been a SEAL if only you had someone to look up to, someone who looked like you and that could have lit the fire in your belly... Not only is it demeaning to the potential sailor/SEAL candidate, but it's downright insulting to the number of minority SEALs. They aren't good enough to serve as role models because there aren't enough of them?
As far as lack of support from their own communities is concerned, exactly what communities are we referring to? When I joined the Army, that became my community. When I swore into the police service, the same thing occurred. I'd imagine the same applies to the Navy, and I'm equally certain that most commands support a good sailor's attempt to join the SEALs. I think the notion that a minority sailor requires support from a social group composed of others of his ethnicity is somewhat disingenuous.
Bottom line- we must treat (all) people as persons worthy of respect, and offer the same opportunities to all. Those with the right attributes- the elite- will find their way to SOF (even if they can't swim very well initially).
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I see your point, it's a good one; and you guys would know much better than me.
Don't take this the wrong way, I am curious if you guys have an opinion about why SOF is overwhelmingly white and rural. I think it has to do with rural communities often training skills from an early age that are heavily utilized in SOF. But why don't more minorities apply? Not trying to use a rhetorical device, I really am interested in your opinions.
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It's not a question of numbers, but awareness of minority predecessors. If you are AD and you know that 'every SEAL I've ever seen is white,' you may assume that you aren't welcome. Hidden messages do exist, which is the damndest thing about perception of prejudice. Note I said perception. The perjorative on prior minority SEALs is a nice philosophical rejoinder but doesn't address the reality, IMO.
You can use the Army community/Navy community as an argument, but remember that again fails to address the reality that people bring their non-military communities with them into the service. You don't shed your entire being and hiostory the moment you put on the uniform. While I am certain that SOF members couldn't give a rat's ass what color you are as long as you measure up, the problem is getting those who aren't aware of that ethos to apply. You have to see the situation from the putative "outsider's" perspective. Your argument, while it sounds nice, doesn't address the reality.
TLDR20
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In the SF group I am in, I would say about 35-40% are a minority mostly hispanic. I do not think white is the overwhelming majority. I think you really should stop where you are in this conversation. SOF guys who have been through these rigorous selection processes have stated emphatically why they believe minorities are under-represented. Those reasons are as follows: 1) Inability to swim( may stem from lack of innercity pools, who knows, I know that I don't care). 2) Lack of motivation to try. 3) Who gives a shit! We are all doing the job, what does it matter who is on my left and right.
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