Navy SEALs seek minority candidates

[TJT0321]

I can place the blame squarely on an inability to swim. Many minorities can't swim...at all. I've seen it myself dozens of times. I won't speculate on why that is, but it's a fact. We get a lot of communicators and support personnel who are more or less forced into our training and we have to teach them to swim. Usually after a week we'll have them able to tread water and maybe do an underwater crossover. After a few months, maybe they're confident and comfortable enough to go to school and survive if they have the desire to finish. A lot of that desire is built up by supporting the individual and helping them get ready and in shape. We teach them, prepare them, and encourage them when things get tough. Without that preparation and support, a lot of guys would fall short.

Anyway, minorities tend to be underrepresented in SOF mostly because they're not knocking down the door trying to join. I think the Navy is trying to change that by encouraging more minorities to give it a shot. I see no problem with that. A simple month long swimming confidence course prior to hitting BUD/s would probably do the trick. Also having some minority SEAL's strutting around their old neighborhoods and schools talking to kids about their job would be helpful. Seems pretty straightforward.

 

[Marauder06]

Don't take this the wrong way, I am curious if you guys have an opinion about why SOF is overwhelmingly white and rural. I think it has to do with rural communities often training skills from an early age that are heavily utilized in SOF. But why don't more minorities apply? Not trying to use a rhetorical device, I really am interested in your opinions.

I saw a study some years back (which unfortunately I cannot find so I cannot post here) that postulated that minorities might tend to join the Army to obtain job training and marketable skills, so they would likely gravitate towards combat support and combat service support roles instead of combat arms. I'm sure if someone with some Google skilz looked long enough they could find a demographic breakdown of the Army showing the percentages of the different branches by race. SOF is unquestionably majority white (and male), but I'm not 100% certain that SOF as a whole is "overwhelmingly" rural, not to a degree significantly greater than the Army in general. But again, I cannot produce any facts to support my claims.

 

[DoctorDoom]

Anyway, minorities tend to be underrepresented in SOF mostly because they're not knocking down the door trying to join. I think the Navy is trying to change that by encouraging more minorities to give it a shot. I see no problem with that. A simple month long swimming confidence course prior to hitting BUD/s would probably do the trick. Also having some minority SEAL's strutting around their old neighborhoods and schools talking to kids about their job would be helpful. Seems pretty straightforward.

Those are my thoughts as well. The only thing is adding more prep courses before actual selection. Doesn't seem fair and elongates the entire pipeline.

In the SF group I am in, I would say about 35-40% are a minority mostly hispanic. I do not think white is the overwhelming majority. I think you really should stop where you are in this conversation. SOF guys who have been through these rigorous selection processes have stated emphatically why they believe minorities are under-represented. Those reasons are as follows: 1) Inability to swim( may stem from lack of innercity pools, who knows, I know that I don't care). 2) Lack of motivation to try. 3) Who gives a shit! We are all doing the job, what does it matter who is on my left and right.

Not every minority is equivalent. NSW is also likely different from SF, and their numbers are not comparable to your SF Group.

I think we are talking at slightly different points. You speak to those who do or don't make it, I was thinking more about those who apply or make the attempt. Although I would say in my defense that in no way do I dispute what you and others who are SOF have said, and my previous posts would show that, other than perhaps the part of "motivation to try." That's the part I'm curious about.
There are other reasons to view the new program critically, other than the legitimate concerns of questionable yield, pressure to lower standards to meet diversity criteria, and recruiting those who lack basic skills which then wastes training resources. I think SOWT pointed out that this happens every 2-3 years; I wonder what drives the current effort to recruit minority applicants. Also, is a diversity drive necessary? It seems like there are plenty of applicants for SOF selection/training; one would have to suppose that minority applicants who then make it through to a SEAL Team are such an advantage in their being black/Latino/Chinese/Afghan alone that it warrants the recruiting, which I don't really see. While I agree with TJT that NSW's efforts may not hurt, for me there's good reason for skepticism.

 

[DoctorDoom]

The second part was directed more or less to other who comment like

Marauder, Sir, I just want to benefit from ISO's internet clairvoyance, being able to direct a post at posts that come AFTER his. I will start a new thread on the lottery, and then have him give me the winning numbers ahead of time when I post my proposed losing numbers. I'll share my winnings with all my SS.com friends.

Returning to the topic at hand... I think my comment regarding the rural extraction of SOF members should be taken with a grain of salt, as you pointed out. I don't have good data except observations from others, which is not well founded information. It does make sense though that the skills developed from youth are often useful, and that really cannot be changed by recruiting.

Based on numbers I have from NSW demographics on the officer side only, there can certainly be more recruiting or something, because the disparity is staggeringly white non-hispanic. This is not applicable to the enlisted ranks, but I suspect they may not be much different.

Interestingly, the Navy has Hispanic as not a race category, but rather a cultural differentiator, in accordance with all federal agencies. You can hispanic and be of any race. I wonder how that breakout looks in other SOF.

Edit for spelling and typos.

 

[x SF med]

When I enlisted, I was definitely in the minority - suburban upper middle class upbringing, college educated (97.5 hrs on enlistment) and I was a recruiter's dream - I wanted combat arms and SF. There was not a delared war at the time (Cold War Era) and Special Ops was relatively unknown to the masses. What washed out the majority of the applicants for SF was the swim test, no matter what background - after the swim test, land nav kicked a lot of butts (I had been in orienteering, no prob), then it was just heart... oddly, even then, the makeup of SF and SEAL appeared to be mostly caucasian. The standards were the standards and you either made it or you didn't.

 

[ISO]

Did any one ever think that "minorities" don't care to try out because they don't feel the need to risk there lives for a country that treats them so shitty ( I don't personally believe that but thats what my friends told me, I love capitalism)? Maybe most are support because they want to get out of a shitty life-style and better themselves, and to them getting shot at is just another day. I grew up in chicago and traveling through 8 different gang territories (couldn't even wear a letterman jacket because a friend of mine was killed because the jacket had gang colors in it) just to get to school I would be lucky if once a week; I wasn't getting shot at or fighting or running for my life. Most kids at the inner city recruiting stations were joining support roles such as admin or supply, simply as a means to pay for college and where encouraged not to take up combat arms, (this was told to me) "don't die for texaco". When I enlisted I didn't see the point in getting shot at everyday all over again, I was eligible for college but I couldn't afford it , so I got a really technical job, and I got out.

As far as skills needed to grow up in the ghetto relating to SOF; I am not a subject matter expert but I don't think all missions required you to track someone through the woods. I thought the last ten years or so have been mostly urban. Then again I am not a subject matter expert. Just a p.o.g, trying out for SOF ( go figure).

 

[surgicalcric]

...I am not a subject matter expert.

You should have stopped there. Your pontifications about what is required of us in the conduct of our (SOF) jobs is neither wanted or warranted and is inaccurate at best.

Clear enough for you?

 

[ISO]

You should have stopped there. Your pontifications about what is required of us in the conduct of our (SOF) jobs is neither wanted or warranted and is inaccurate at best.

Clear enough for you?

lol your serious too

 

[Teufel]

lol your serious too

Thoughtful discussion is welcomed, childish behavior is not. If you want to get something out of this forum, show some respect to the men and women on this board who have had very successful careers in special operations. Feel free to disagree with a senior member of this board but mind your tone when you do so. You have been warned.

 

[AWP]

I just watched a new Magpul Dynamics video, "The Art of the Locked Thread."

 

[Polar Bear]

lol your serious too

See ya

 

[Marauder06]

Well, I tried to help him out by deleting his first uninformed, inflammatory and off-topic post (as well as the posts in the resulting dogpile) but I guess he didn't get the hint.

 

[DA SWO]

I saw a study some years back (which unfortunately I cannot find so I cannot post here) that postulated that minorities might tend to join the Army to obtain job training and marketable skills, so they would likely gravitate towards combat support and combat service support roles instead of combat arms. I'm sure if someone with some Google skilz looked long enough they could find a demographic breakdown of the Army showing the percentages of the different branches by race. SOF is unquestionably majority white (and male), but I'm not 100% certain that SOF as a whole is "overwhelmingly" rural, not to a degree significantly greater than the Army in general. But again, I cannot produce any facts to support my claims.

I read the same study (mid to late 90's IIRC). Rural whites tended to join Combat Arms for the challenge, and minorities joined for job skills/college money (look at the recruiting themes back then).