NCOER 101

Marauder06

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I was cleaning up some old files today and came across an old "NCOER Cheat Sheet" I used to use. It reminded me how ill-prepared I felt as a 2LT to write my first-ever NCOER for my Ranger-School-Honor-Grad platoon sergeant. What I ended up doing was having him write the NCOER, then I went back through and proofed it and turned it in. I rationalized this by saying that he knows best what he did, and he knows best what's going to get him promoted, so I'll just make sure the formatting and spelling are correct and everyone will be happy.

That was a cop-out. While it's important to include the rated NCO in the NCOER process, it is not the NCO's job to write his own evaluation. For one thing, most NCOs feel uncomfortable tooting their own horn about what they've done during the rating period, so the NCOER may not adequately capture the individual's performance during the rating period. More importantly, it's the officer's (commissioned or non-commissioned) responsibility to those he rates/senior rates to understand the duties and responsibilities of his subordinates, and his responsibility to the Army to give an honest evaluation so that the rated individual can be considered appropriately for positions, promotions and schooling.

With that in mind, I was hoping to ask for some input from board members, particularly NCOs, who have experience writing NCOERs to put their hints and vignettes here, so we can all learn from their experiences.
 
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TaskForceT

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I'm unapologetic about having my NCOs write the initial draft of their NCOER. My rationale is:

1- Officers have the Support Form to highlight their accomplishments whereas NCOs have no mechanism for this. Ideally, they are counselled periodically by rater and senior rater...but so are officers for that matter...amd we all know how often that actually happens.

2- It gives NCOs experience in writing NCOERs which is something that they struggle with as much as we do. This is particularly useful with junior NCOs and by including them in the process, you give them insight into how to write them properly and the ass-pain involved in the process.

Personally, I'm holding my breath for a system like the USMC FitReps which will not allow you to put in any incorrect data and auto formats. I'm sick of messing with FormFlow.
 

AWP

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I'm sick of messing with FormFlow.

Nothing has changed in 7 years (when I last dealt with NCOERs)? Ouch.

I'm with TFT on this, have the NCO write the initial draft of their NCOER, let the O clean it up and add bullets as needed to make it presentable.
 
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TaskForceT

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There is a new program out there for NCOERs that is a significant improvement but it works in conjuction with your CAC card to digitally sign the NCOERs. It's an improvement but it comes with it's own share of headaches.
 

0699

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As an NCO... (Marine not Army, but I think we're talking principle here, not specifics)

I want to give input on my fitness report, but I don't want to write the damn thing. I (as Mara seems to think too) consider it one of an officer's most important jobs to write enlisted fitness reports. It's called "looking out for the welfare of your Marines". I have seen officers who are "too busy" to right fitness reports or incapable of writing legible sentences. At a past unit, I wrote the entire fitness report for all of the Marines that worked for me (one E7, three E6s, and close to fifteen E5s). All the OIC did was sign them without changing anything. Piss poor.

The way I prefer to do business in the Marine being reported on fills out the first section (personal info) that way he knows everything is correct.

The second section (billet responsibilities) should be done at the beginning of the reporting period by both the Marine and his OIC, so that they both agree on what the NCO's job entails.

When the report is due, the Marine gets an opportunity to complete section three (billet accomplishments) so that he can ensure the OIC knows everything the Marine did during the reporting period. My OIC isn't looking over my shoulder every day, so he might have missed something. But primary responsibility for everything should lie with the OIC.

After the first three sections, all the responsibility lies with the OIC. He should ensure the marks are well-written and timely. Also, ensure the report is written on time. I've seen Marines get their report three to four months after the due date because officers were "too busy" to get the report done. The Marine shouldn't have to wait more than thirty days, and if they're PCS/PCAing, they should get the report before they detach.

Just my two cents. Don't get me wrong, I've worked for officers that were VERY good at staying on top of reports. My OIC that just PCS'd did a very good job with fitness reports. But it only takes working for one or two officers that don't write fitness reports properly to put a sour taste in your mouth.
 

Marauder06

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As an NCO... (Marine not Army, but I think we're talking principle here, not specifics)

I want to give input on my fitness report, but I don't want to write the damn thing. I (as Mara seems to think too) /snip...

Yes, that's exactly what I think, but I want to emphasize that what I put forth is "a" way to do it, not "the" way, or even the best way. I take that back; my way is always the best way :D

If you keep up with counselings and the NCOER checklist, you'll have most of the bullet comments already written before you sit down to do the NCOER. It works pretty well as a support form.

I am having my first experience with Marine FITREPs; I have two Marines working for me now. All I have to say about them is :doh::doh::doh: (the FITREPs, not the Marines)

Maybe someone can explain the FITREP process?

+1 on Task Force's comments on FormFlow; only thing I like less than that is DTS- don't get me started
 

0699

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Maybe someone can explain the FITREP process?

What part? Have you read MCO 1610.7F? You can download an electronic copy at this site...

http://www.usmc.mil/directiv.nsf/Pdocuments?openview&count=5000&start=1

Basically, starting when you become the Reporting Senior (RS) for a Marine.

1) The Marine and you work together to fill out the Marine Reported On (MRO) Worksheet (MROW). This provides all his basic information and his billet description and it tells him what you expect from him. It serves as the base document used to fill out the fitrep.

2) At the end of the reporting period you fill out sections C through I outlining his job performance. At this point most Marines should be allowed to participate (at least on the section C "billet accomplishments") so they can ensure the RS covers everything the Marine has done in the reporting period.

3) The fitrep goes to the Reviewing Officer (which MUST be a Marine if the RS is a civilian or other service) who then sendsd it to MMSB, the branch at HQMC that maintains the fitness reports.


I don't know that I can explain the process deeper than that (especially off the top of my head), but I'm happy to help you with any specific questions. I've been the subject of many fitreps and with the POS Lt I had a few years ago, I've written more than my fair share of fitreps on junior SNCOs and sergeants. ;)

Are you using APES, the automated processing system for fitreps? It's much easier than doing the old PES system, but AFAIK it's only available on Marine On-Line (MOL) and I don't know if non-Marines can get access to MOL.
 

Centermass

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If you keep up with counselings and the NCOER checklist, you'll have most of the bullet comments already written before you sit down to do the NCOER.

Bingo.

And make sure others in the chain do so as well with those they are responsible for, even if they're not rated.

I don't know what aggravated more in garrison, someone lost when it came to an NCOER or someone shortchanged because nothing was documented.

Got an outstanding performer? Document it.

Leads by example? Document it.

Get someone's attention? Document it.

Time to DX a shitbird? Document it.

Bottom line is if it's not captured accordingly, someone will be shortchanged or someone will slide.

Says a lot to subordinates about their leadership whether it's "a job well done" or "don't let it happen again" moments.

Just an old topkick rambling. :2c:
 
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TaskForceT

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Interesting trivia. Apparently there is DA guidance that there must be a comment on safety in the rater comments block of OERs. Whatever.

"He killed XXXX bad people safely."
 

0699

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Bingo.

And make sure others in the chain do so as well with those they are responsible for, even if they're not rated.

I don't know what aggravated more in garrison, someone lost when it came to an NCOER or someone shortchanged because nothing was documented.

Got an outstanding performer? Document it.

Leads by example? Document it.

Get someone's attention? Document it.

Time to DX a shitbird? Document it.

Bottom line is if it's not captured accordingly, someone will be shortchanged or someone will slide.

Says a lot to subordinates about their leadership whether it's "a job well done" or "don't let it happen again" moments.

Just an old topkick rambling. :2c:

Good post. And don't "topkicks" get paid to ramble? :)
 

Marauder06

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bumping this thread. I saw some posts about NCOERs on some recent thread, thought this thread might be worthy of bringing back to life for a while.
 

0699

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Mara-
Did you ever write those fitness reports on the Marines working for you? How'd it go?
 

car

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Some suggestions for bullets:

Couldn't find his own ass with both hands

Couldn't pour water out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel

Couldn't organize a piss-off in a brewery

Was the best senior NCO I've ever had as a radio operator

:D
 

0699

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Yes I did. It was an enormous pain in the ass, but I know how to do it for next time.

Can you come down to Lejeune and give classes? :)

Additional useful report comments:

"SNM is a tall, good-looking cocaine user"
"His Marines follow him out of curiosity & boredom"
"Would definitely prefer not to serve with this Marine again"
 

RetPara

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In your worst nightmare.....
From a Marine LT's FITREP circa 1976, lead sentence in comments, 'This young Lieutenant is not one of the Few Good Men the Corps has been looking for.'

Other comments seen -

'Presents a fine appearance when not inebriated.'

'Has been know to make the correct choice in challenging ethical and moral situations.'

'Would benefit from additional education especially in reading skills.'
 

0699

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From a Marine LT's FITREP circa 1976, lead sentence in comments, 'This young Lieutenant is not one of the Few Good Men the Corps has been looking for.'

Other comments seen -

'Presents a fine appearance when not inebriated.'

'Has been know to make the correct choice in challenging ethical and moral situations.'

'Would benefit from additional education especially in reading skills.'

I think I know this guy... :D
 
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