News Flash!! The Haqqani Network Just Might Be a Terrorist Organization!

Marauder06

Marauder06

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With a Congressional reporting deadline looming, the Obama administration appears ready to designate the Haqqani network as a terrorist organization, risking a new breach in relations with Pakistan.
Click to expand...

Let's review the bidding, shall we? (I'm not going to post links, feel free to factcheck on your own)

-The HQN is the most capable (i.e. deadly) terrorist group in the entire region. This specifically includes the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Everybody knows it.
-The leaders of the HQN are specifically named as international terrorists. Everyone knows it.
-The HQN is currently holding the only US POW in the region, Bowe Berghdahl. Everybody knows it.
-The HQN is is a terrorist organization through and through. Everyone knows it.

So why is the US dithering over where to drop the hammer on these clowns and call a spade a spade?

The main reason is because to admit the HQN is a terrorist organization is to admit Pakistan is a state sponsor of terrorism. Since the HQN is a "veritable arm" of Pakistan's intelligence apparatus the ISI,(Google it if you want), designating the HQN a terrorist organization directly and explicitly implicates the government of Pakistan in international terrorism and the deaths of US servicemembers. And everyone knows it.
 
1) That phrase might offend someone
2) I thought FF said we killed them/him/it/they
 
You really believe that HQN is on the same playing field as Hezbollah, Hamas, FARC, Red Brigades, November 17, and Abu Sayef Group? O_o

http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm

Legal Criteria for Designation under Section 219 of the INA as amended
  1. It must be a foreign organization.
  2. The organization must engage in terrorist activity, as defined in section 212 (a)(3)(B) of the INA (8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(3)(B)),* or terrorism, as defined in section 140(d)(2) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1988 and 1989 (22 U.S.C. § 2656f(d)(2)),** or retain the capability and intent to engage in terrorist activity or terrorism.
  3. The organization’s terrorist activity or terrorism must threaten the security of U.S. nationals or the national security (national defense, foreign relations, or the economic interests) of the United States.
 
SkrewzLoose said:
1) That phrase might offend someone
2) I thought FF said we killed them/him/it/they
Click to expand...

These days, everything might offend someone. If people educated themselves, they might not be so easily offended. I totally get why people might find "the rule of thumb" offensive, given its historical context. But seizing on one particular word in "calling a spade a spade" and making assumptions (i.e. prejudices) about it and what I mean by it based on the color of my skin, makes the person getting offended over it at least as guilty of racism as he or she (wrongly) assumes I am by choosing to use the phrase correctly and in the traditional, historic, and most decidedly non-racist context.

Supposedly we got the operational commander of the HQN, Badruddin. The overall commander, his brother Siraj, and the patriarch of the HQN, Jalaludin, are AFAIK both still alive. But just killing the top leaders probably won't cripple the overall network, at least not immediately, since it's propped up by Pakistan.
 
This thread needs clipart.
FP-1.jpg​
Marauder06 said:
-The HQN is the most capable (i.e. deadly) terrorist group in the entire region.This specifically includes the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Everybody knows it.-The leaders of the HQN are specifically named as international terrorists. Everyone knows it.-The HQN is currently holding the only US POW in the region, Bowe Berghdahl. Everybody knows it.-The HQN is is a terrorist organization through and through. Everyone knows it.
Click to expand...
FP-2.jpg​
​
 
lindy said:
You really believe that HQN is on the same playing field as Hezbollah, Hamas, FARC, Red Brigades, November 17, and Abu Sayef Group? O_o

http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm
Click to expand...

Um, yeah.


Legal Criteria for Designation under Section 219 of the INA as amended
  1. It must be a foreign organization.
  2. The organization must engage in terrorist activity, as defined in section 212 (a)(3)(B) of the INA (8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(3)(B)),* or terrorism, as defined in section 140(d)(2) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1988 and 1989 (22 U.S.C. § 2656f(d)(2)),** or retain the capability and intent to engage in terrorist activity or terrorism.
  3. The organization’s terrorist activity or terrorism must threaten the security of U.S. nationals or the national security (national defense, foreign relations, or the economic interests) of the United States.
Click to expand...

Actually, no; they are operating at a higher level than some of the organizations you named. And after we pull out of Afghanistan and the Taliban / HQN take the country back over, the HQN will be operating at a level approaching Hamas and Hezbollah, because they will have sanctuary, the resources of an entire country, and the political, military, and economic support of a major regional power (in this case, Pakistan).
 
Mara's rhetorical questions that I answer unknowingly - 9,873,432
SL's sarcastic comment -1

I have some catching up to do...
 
SkrewzLoose said:
Mara's rhetorical questions that I answer unknowingly - 9,873,432
SL's sarcastic comment -1

I have some catching up to do...
Click to expand...

Actually, I take responsibility for not recognizing your sarcasm. I'm three drinks deep into The Glenlivet and not spending as much time analyzing posts before I make a response as I usually do. I didn't even post links to support my position on the HQN tonight ;)
 
Strongly disagree based on the definition of terrorism per US law.

Sec. 212. [8 U.S.C. 1182]

4/ (iii) TERRORIST ACTIVITY DEFINED.-As used in this Act, the term "terrorist activity" means any activity which is unlawful under the laws of the place where it is committed (or which, if 4/ it had been committed in the United States, would be unlawful under the laws of the United States or any State) and which involves any of the following: ​

(I) The highjacking or sabotage of any conveyance (including an aircraft, vessel, or vehicle). ​

(II) The seizing or detaining, and threatening to kill, injure, or continue to detain, another individual in order to compel a third person (including a governmental organization) to do or abstain from doing any act as an explicit or implicit condition for the release of the individual seized or detained. ​

(III) A violent attack upon an internationally protected person (as defined in section 1116(b)(4) of title 18, United States Code) or upon the liberty of such a person. ​

(IV) An assassination. ​

(V) The use of any- ​

(aa) biological agent, chemical agent, or nuclear weapon or device, or ​

(bb) explosive, 4/ firearm, or other weapon or dangerous device (other than for mere personal monetary gain), with intent to endanger, directly or indirectly, the safety of one or more individuals or to cause substantial damage to property. ​

(VI) A threat, attempt, or conspiracy to do any of the foregoing. ​
​

Furthermore, how does HQN meet this criteria?

INA: ACT 219 - DESIGNATION OF FOREIGN TERRORIST ORGANIZATION 1/

Sec. 219. (a) Designation.-
(1) In general.-The Secretary is authorized to designate an organization as a terrorist organization in accordance with this subsection if the Secretary finds that-

(A) the organization is a foreign organization;

(B) the organization engages in terrorist activity (as defined in section 212(a)(3)(B) 1a/ or terrorism (as defined in section 140(d)(2) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1988 and 1989 (22 U.S.C. 2656f(d)(2)), or retains the capability and intent to engage in terrorist activity or terrorism); and

(C) the terrorist activity 1a/ or terrorism of the organization threatens the security of United States nationals or the national security of the United States.
 
It only took 3 years and we still do not want to admit that PK supports terrorists....you're with us or against us, right?

Asia and the Middle East will dominate US foreign policy far longer than Europe did during the Cold War and we still can't bring ourselves to admit that we've given 18+ billion dollars to a terrorist state on top of trade and jobs we've shipped to them. We're being raped and they are suing us for child support.

Fan-fucking-tastic.
 
Freefalling said:
It only took 3 years and we still do not want to admit that PK supports terrorists....you're with us or against us, right?

Asia and the Middle East will dominate US foreign policy far longer than Europe did during the Cold War and we still can't bring ourselves to admit that we've given 18+ billion dollars to a terrorist state on top of trade and jobs we've shipped to them. We're being raped and they are suing us for child support.

Fan-fucking-tastic.
Click to expand...

Thanks to politicians who would rather continue fucking this country up as opposed to admitting they were wrong about something. They'll be good either way, since if shit really does go south in a hurry, they'll be stealing all of our money to go run off to the Caribbean or wherever-the-fuck.
 
lindy said:
Strongly disagree based on the definition of terrorism per US law.

Sec. 212. [8 U.S.C. 1182]

4/ (iii) TERRORIST ACTIVITY DEFINED.-As used in this Act, the term "terrorist activity" means any activity which is unlawful under the laws of the place where it is committed (or which, if 4/ it had been committed in the United States, would be unlawful under the laws of the United States or any State) and which involves any of the following:

(I) The highjacking or sabotage of any conveyance (including an aircraft, vessel, or vehicle).

(II) The seizing or detaining, and threatening to kill, injure, or continue to detain, another individual in order to compel a third person (including a governmental organization) to do or abstain from doing any act as an explicit or implicit condition for the release of the individual seized or detained.

(III) A violent attack upon an internationally protected person (as defined in section 1116(b)(4) of title 18, United States Code) or upon the liberty of such a person.

(IV) An assassination.

(V) The use of any-

(aa) biological agent, chemical agent, or nuclear weapon or device, or

(bb) explosive, 4/ firearm, or other weapon or dangerous device (other than for mere personal monetary gain), with intent to endanger, directly or indirectly, the safety of one or more individuals or to cause substantial damage to property.

(VI) A threat, attempt, or conspiracy to do any of the foregoing.


Furthermore, how does HQN meet this criteria?

INA: ACT 219 - DESIGNATION OF FOREIGN TERRORIST ORGANIZATION 1/

Sec. 219. (a) Designation.-
(1) In general.-The Secretary is authorized to designate an organization as a terrorist organization in accordance with this subsection if the Secretary finds that-

(A) the organization is a foreign organization;

(B) the organization engages in terrorist activity (as defined in section 212(a)(3)(B) 1a/ or terrorism (as defined in section 140(d)(2) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1988 and 1989 (22 U.S.C. 2656f(d)(2)), or retains the capability and intent to engage in terrorist activity or terrorism); and

(C) the terrorist activity 1a/ or terrorism of the organization threatens the security of United States nationals or the national security of the United States.
Click to expand...

This is a good question. I'm going to go pour myself another Scotch, and if I'm still coherent enough after, I'll write up what I think is a good response.

Short answer: by any and every definition, the HQN is a terrorist organization. I'll provide evidence shortly.
 
Marauder06 said:
This is a good question. I'm going to go pour myself another Scotch, and if I'm still coherent enough after, I'll write up what I think is a good response.

Short answer: by any and every definition, the HQN is a terrorist organization. I'll provide evidence shortly.
Click to expand...

"Just over the next hill." :ROFLMAO:
 

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