Nurse arrested for refusing to draw blood from DWI suspect

Ooh-Rah

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Okay so if I understand this correctly.

Cop wanted blood drawn - did not have a warrant and patient was unable to consent
Nurse refused to draw blood because she had no legal order to do so.
Cop arrested nurse for....?

I am VERY interested to hear from both the police perspective and the medical side. Specifically, does anyone believe that the cop was justified in arresting the nurse?

To add - the nurse is a bit dramatic and her screams would lead you to believe she is being viciously attacked. I had to turn the volume down a bit.

To add once more - even if the officer felt like he needed to arrest the nurse on some legal basis, could he have been more of a dink about it. The video that we are shown see the nurse attempting to explain her point to the officer in a calm and respectful way. No reason he could not extend her the same professional courtesy.

Video shows Utah nurse screaming, being handcuffed after refusing to take blood from unconscious victim

 

medicchick

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Let me quote some federal regulations...

Implied Consent to Alcohol Testing
Any person who holds a CDL is considered to have consented to such testing as is required by any State or jurisdiction in the enforcement of being under the influence of a controlled substance or using alcohol, be under the influence of alcohol, or have any measured alcohol concentration or detected presence of alcohol, while on duty, or operating, or in physical control of a commercial motor vehicle. Consent is implied by driving a commercial motor vehicle.

States

Driver was in his semi delivering a load when he was hit. They had every right to test him per federal regulation. It was an accident that resulted in a death, even if he was not at fault at all testing is required to be done. I am not saying either side did the right thing as I feel it was allowed to escalate WAY out of hand.
 

Florida173

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Let me quote some federal regulations...



States

Driver was in his semi delivering a load when he was hit. They had every right to test him per federal regulation. It was an accident that resulted in a death, even if he was not at fault at all testing is required to be done. I am not saying either side did the right thing as I feel it was allowed to escalate WAY out of hand.

If that would have been the conversation, I think it might be different. The nurse was acting in the best interest of the hospital and the patient while also speaking with her supervisor on the phone. My understanding that the hospital had an agreement already with what would allow for blood draw and this situation didn't meet the criteria. There are a few other angles of the event that aren't edited that show a more context of the situation.

The officer was put on leave and nurse has received an apology. Seems like admission of guilt. Officer Payne's supervisor is the one that advised him to make the arrest if she refused though. The entire event didn't seem like it should have played out that way in my opinion.
 

CDG

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That cop was a fucking dickhead, based on what the video shows. It was a policy dispute that should have been handled by supervisors, not by a detective and a nurse.
 

medicchick

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If that would have been the conversation, I think it might be different. The nurse was acting in the best interest of the hospital and the patient while also speaking with her supervisor on the phone. My understanding that the hospital had an agreement already with what would allow for blood draw and this situation didn't meet the criteria. There are a few other angles of the event that aren't edited that show a more context of the situation.

The officer was put on leave and nurse has received an apology. Seems like admission of guilt. Officer Payne's supervisor is the one that advised him to make the arrest if she refused though. The entire event didn't seem like it should have played out that way in my opinion.
I think there needs to be some education on both sides. Since a CDL holder has already consented when they applied for one it should have been easy to get a warrant. The hospital should however be made aware of the federal regulations in place about it as well. Shit show all the way around.
 

TLDR20

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I think there needs to be some education on both sides. Since a CDL holder has already consented when they applied for one it should have been easy to get a warrant. The hospital should however be made aware of the federal regulations in place about it as well. Shit show all the way around.


We all need to understand the policy put in place by hospitals for events like this. In this case and ones like it hospitals allow police to conduct the blood draws if they meet the criteria outlined, she read the policy the police department agreed to, to the detective. We have a similar policy at Shock Trauma, and University of Maryland.

Like you said the warrant should have been easy.

Implied consent wouldn't mean shit to me. Come at my patient without a warrant, a MD order, or the consent of the patient, talking about some federal law and I'm going to tell you very professionally to get fucked. HIPPA rules the world in medicine and her allowing her patient to have blood drawn when it isn't ok would result in her losing her job, license, and future earnings.

This was total clown shoes by the cops who were there.
 

Kraut783

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Texas law allows the involuntary taking of blood from a suspect if a victim has died or will die, no warrant required. (Traffic accidents/watercraft accidents)

But what happened in that video was, as someone put it, a complete shitshow.
 
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TLDR20

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Texas law allows the involuntary taking of blood from a suspect if a victim has died or will die, no warrant required. (Traffic accidents/watercraft accidents)

But what happened in that video was, as someone put it, a complete shitshow.

This was in Utah.
 

Kraut783

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How is that affected by Birchfield v. North Dakota?

It is not affected. I believe the three cases consolidated in that decision were misdemeanor DWI and refusal cases, while the Texas law is for intoxication manslaughter, 2nd Degree Felony.

We do have no-refusal days, usually holidays, when Police will get SW's for blood on misdemeanor DWI cases. Something I really don't agree with.....

And while I know this huge screwup happened in Utah, I was just showing how some states it's not uncommon to draw blood without a SW.
 

Muppet

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This entire debacle was uncalled for. I am pro cop, as much as any other emergency services person but this, IMHO, punched a stake between the entire nursing / hospital system and law enforcement. Hopefully, both sides will be able to see through this and still be able to work together in the future. I am not sure if this nurse will proceed with a civil suit / wrongful arrest, what ever it's called. I imagine it would be settled quickly. If this happened to me, I am not so sure I would sue. It reminds me of the rash of Cali Highway Patrol LEOs, arresting fire dept. engine / ladder drivers for maintaining a blocking position on a major highway. For those that don't know that, it is when a large fire truck blocks a lane or 2, sometimes, the entire highway, allowing EMS/fire providers a safer space to work an M.V.C. / pin in. Many drivers were told to move, they did not, arrested they were. Fucked up, again, that stake between cops / fire-EMS.

One other thing. Social media obviously played a huge role in this. 10 or 15 years ago, this would have not been so highly debated.

M.
 

TLDR20

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Yup. This is the case where she sits down on one side of the table with her attorney.

On the other side of the table are the city and their attorney. The city opens up the wallet and asks, "How much do you want?" The Nurse wins. The facility has a suit as well for interfering with direct patient care, and the running of the unit the Nurse was in charge of.

I wonder if the cop who grabbed her could get some time for assault? It seems to me that what the arresting cop did was well outside the scope of his police powers.

I would have loved to have been there writing orders on this patient.

We have been talking about this for a few days on the unit I work on. There are a lot of male nurses, almost all veterans. No way we'd let one of our female colleagues get dragged off by some cop without a hell of a lot more shit going on than happened there.

Where were her co-workers?
 
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