Nurse arrested for refusing to draw blood from DWI suspect

Frank S.

L'homme qui rit
Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2006
Messages
1,482
Location
The Mountains of Madness
Tempus fugit. Here's why I love the film "Jiro dreams of sushi".

@Red Flag 1 pointed out how acute the nursing shortage is nationwide, and it's an observation that's true also of professions like Law Enforcement and teaching among others.
Once you count yourself lucky enough as a recruiter to have found a "potential" candidate, who is not only willing but qualified, how many years does it take to train them and for them to become proficient in fields that are more and more technical? Some points made in another thread are pertinent.
@Marauder06 pointed out we are all products of our environment and slaves to our experiences, to which I'd add that there is precious little if any effort made to help people break free from the resulting calcification.
It's the scars I don't see which concern me.
In the time we allot ourselves to study, acquire, review, test and practice, practice and test our professional knowledge, the demands of our increasingly overlapping fields increase at an unmanageable rate. I see us, society, receding further behind the curve: automation and AI are the most readily available palliative. There is too much to learn, too much to do, for too many people by people who take too long.

Not to mention the innumerable opportunities to fail in the court of public opinion.
 
Last edited:

Devildoc

Verified Military
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Messages
5,017
Location
Durham, NC
To address the nursing shortage. S*** like that certainly doesn't help. Nor do the spitting, beatings, assaults, and being puked on on a regular basis. Well, the puking we have to deal with, the rest has just been part of the job until very recently. Now there is legislation pending and laws that have been passed addressing assaulting nurses. The ED is a Minefield for so many reasons, and has a Perpetual shortage Nationwide.
 

Muppet

Paratrooper
Verified Military
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
11,234
Location
Wrong side of heaven, righteous side of hell
Has that helped, or is it too early to tell?

Some states make assaulting a nurse or paramedic, a felony, just like an L.E.O. Problem is, in the pre-hospital or hospital setting, patients that spit, hit, kick need to be ruled out as not having a medical issue. This works in favor of their lawyer. If that lawyer can go down the road of "this pt. was medical ill / psych ill", the felony may be dropped to a misdemeanor or down right thrown out of court. In almost 18 years as a paramedic, I have been subject to assaults, more than a few times, the felony was dropped to simple assault or dropped all together, "pt. was a psych off meds" defense. That all make sense bro?

M.
 

policemedic

Verified SWAT
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
5,684
Location
A galaxy far, far away
Laws don't prevent crimes, so the prevalence of assaults on ED nurses and paramedics has remained constant in my view. However, at least in PA, our law allows me to make an arrest (by making the crime a felony) where I otherwise could not. Regardless of what happens in court the offender has been in jail and had to make bail, pay a lawyer or deal with the public defender, go to court...Even absent a conviction there are consequences.
 

Devildoc

Verified Military
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Messages
5,017
Location
Durham, NC
Laws don't prevent crimes, so the prevalence of assaults on ED nurses and paramedics has remained constant in my view. However, at least in PA, our law allows me to make an arrest (by making the crime a felony) where I otherwise could not. Regardless of what happens in court the offender has been in jail and had to make bail, pay a lawyer or deal with the public defender, go to court...Even absent a conviction there are consequences.

I do not remember what the charge was before, but the general feeling was it was just part of the job. That is not the feeling anymore, leadership and law enforcement are very swift in dealing with it now. That is fairly new.
 

policemedic

Verified SWAT
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
5,684
Location
A galaxy far, far away
I do not remember what the charge was before, but the general feeling was it was just part of the job. That is not the feeling anymore, leadership and law enforcement are very swift in dealing with it now. That is fairly new.

I've run into that before, coupled with the ever-popular, "I don't want them to get into trouble."

#nursesaren'tpunchingbags
 

pardus

Verified Military
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
10,016
That cop acted disgracefully. He needs to be charged, and to a lessor extent, so does the supervisor who ordered him to act in this way. An abuse of authority that needs to be jumped on from a great height. Particularly at this point in time when (IMO) LEOs need to be using COIN mentality to bring their own citizens closer to them.

My .02c
 

Ooh-Rah

Semper-Fi
Verified Military
Joined
Sep 12, 2012
Messages
11,075
<UPDATE>

Utah officer fired after nurse's arrest caught on video

ALT LAKE CITY (AP) — A Utah police officer who was caught on video roughly handcuffing a nurse because she refused to allow a blood draw was fired Tuesday in a case that became a flashpoint in the ongoing national conversation about police use of force.

To add - he took his boss down with him. I'll have to go back and read "why".
Payne's supervisor, Lt. James Tracy, was also demoted to officer. His lawyer, Ed Brass, couldn't immediately be reached for comment.
 
Last edited:

SaintKP

Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2017
Messages
1,067
Location
Midwest
<UPDATE>

Utah officer fired after nurse's arrest caught on video

ALT LAKE CITY (AP) — A Utah police officer who was caught on video roughly handcuffing a nurse because she refused to allow a blood draw was fired Tuesday in a case that became a flashpoint in the ongoing national conversation about police use of force.

To add - he took his boss down with him. I'll have to go back and read "why".
Payne's supervisor, Lt. James Tracy, was also demoted to officer. His lawyer, Ed Brass, couldn't immediately be reached for comment.


Good, means there is some "right" left in the world after all.
 

Totentanz

Civil Affairs
Verified SOF
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
1,627
<UPDATE>

Utah officer fired after nurse's arrest caught on video

ALT LAKE CITY (AP) — A Utah police officer who was caught on video roughly handcuffing a nurse because she refused to allow a blood draw was fired Tuesday in a case that became a flashpoint in the ongoing national conversation about police use of force.

To add - he took his boss down with him. I'll have to go back and read "why".
Payne's supervisor, Lt. James Tracy, was also demoted to officer. His lawyer, Ed Brass, couldn't immediately be reached for comment.

IIRC, the supervisor was on the phone with him throughout the incident, and directly instructed Payne to arrest her. Might not have been the one who went hands-on, but in my eyes, just as responsible for what went down.
 

The Hate Ape

MARSOC
SOF Support
Joined
Oct 6, 2011
Messages
599
Location
West Coast
I've read through the entire thread from page 01 and found comments from @TLDR20 @Muppet and @policemedic that struck me the most.

No way we'd let one of our female colleagues get dragged off by some cop without a hell of a lot more shit going on than happened there.
While I have zero-percent doubt in your ability to gain tactical control of the situation, I hate this particular mentality implied - the worst thing you can do when a cop gets out of line is make an attempt to get physically involved. He's the guy with the gun, he's the guy with the "con" and if push came to shove there are a lot more guys that'll stack that doorway with his needs in mind first. Her colleagues appeared to be following along through the situation including during the arrest. One could have addressed her directly to calm down while the other continued to discuss the situation with the detective. Would it have helped? Doubt it, but had it worked it would have been worth it.

@Muppet & @policemedic
You both seem pretty set against the detective for his actions - from my layman's viewpoint, what am I missing? He didn't seem that rough in the video (yeah he grabbed her but he didn't slam her against a wall or yell like what I would believe to be rough) and appeared to be only interested in removing her from the situation. Sure, she was the nurse in charge which I assume means more than I understand currently - often police officers appear to use the handcuffs/arrest as a tool for navigating a particular situation. The Lieutenant's stance seemed to encourage his actions as well if that was indeed the guy on the phone.

Dude has been honorably serving society since before I was born in the 1980s as both a LEO and Paramedic - while I agree he could have likely navigated the situation better I wouldn't necessarily label him "a fucking cunt" who "needs to be fired" especially considering the amount he's sacrificed. The nurse was arrested, for what seemed to be 20 minutes, and she was in handcuffs/crying/etc... it was a dick move but not a move worthy of being kicked in the well for Sparta.

He seems to be getting fired over the publicity of the event, where, the effects seem exaggerated at best. I'm glad the nurse stood her ground and applaud her tenacity to stick to what she believed to be the best of patient care - I just wish the cop wasn't losing his entire livelihood over a stupid ass situation.
 

Ooh-Rah

Semper-Fi
Verified Military
Joined
Sep 12, 2012
Messages
11,075
I've read through the entire thread from page 01 and found comments from @TLDR20 @Muppet and @policemedic that struck me the most.
<POST>.

Overall I agree with your whole post. We saw this guy on his worst day; everybody has them. Not to mention, unless I am missing something HUGE here, the officer was doing this with the blessing (and dare I say, encouragement) of his direct supervisor.

Personally I am about tired of cell-phone videos taking a snapshot of someone's life, and depending on the way pitchfork-nation is trending, costing someone their job. We are way WAY too quick take someone's livelihood away over a singular incident.

For everyone calling him a <pick a derogatory name> , have you never done something in your job that you think back on and say, "Damn...that was pretty fucking stupid. Very glad no one saw/heard what just happened".
 

trin

Medic
Verified Military
Joined
Aug 19, 2017
Messages
76
Location
Texas
Personally I am about tired of cell-phone videos taking a snapshot of someone's life, .

It was his own body-cam and those of the other officers, along with hospital security footage, that provided the evidence needed to fire him and demote his supervisor.

Sure, she was the nurse in charge which I assume means more than I understand currently

It wasn't just the assault on the nurse, it was the fact that he interfered with patient care of all of the patients in the department at the time. Every one of those patients could legitimately sue him, his supervisor, and the SLPD for that.
 
Top