Official Ukraine/Georgian Thread

[Marauder06]

I don't know why you think that the WaPost is such a liberal paper. Compared to trash like Fox News and Washington Times I guess, but compared to most large news outlets they have a very unbiased newsroom.

I don't know bro, the Post endorsed President Obama... twice... and when a newspaper's own ombudsman says things like this, that's a pretty good indicator of a liberal tilt:

...some of the conservatives' complaints about a liberal tilt are valid. Journalism naturally draws liberals; we like to change the world. I'll bet that most Post journalists voted for Obama. I did. There are centrists at The Post as well. But the conservatives I know here feel so outnumbered that they don't even want to be quoted by name in a memo.

 

[TLDR20]

There is plenty of liberal trash as well, as to the bold, I never said trash was an "anonym" of anything, partially because I don't know what an anonym is, and partially because I was not equating liberal with the trash that WT and Fox News regularly distribute. If I was equating liberal and conservative news outlets I would have compared Fox to MSNBC and Washington Times to...... I don't know New York Times I guess.

Perception is reality I suppose and I would agree that they are trying to move to the center with columnists like Will, Krauthammer, etc unlike MSNBC and Wash Times (extreme on each side) but I would not call the Post unbiased. Quite revealing that you stated the anonym of "liberal" is "trash".

I would disagree with the findings of radio and TV but overall, I think they captured the essence here.

http://library.lakelandcc.edu/PDFs/research/bias.pdf

 

[Chopstick]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/03/russia-tightens-grip-on-crimea-as-west-scrambles-to-respond/
Just saw this on Fox.

Ukraine says Russian forces controlling the disputed peninsula of Crimea are demanding that the crew of two Ukrainian warships must surrender – or face capture.

Ukrainian Defense Ministry spokesman Maksim Prauta said four Russian navy ships were blocking Ukraine's anti-submarine warship Ternopil and the command ship Slavutych in Sevastopol's harbor.

He said the Russians ordered the crew to surrender within the hour or face Russians storming and seizing the ships and crew.

Russia’s fleet also ordered Ukraine’s forces in the region to surrender by 5 a.m. local time Tuesday or face “a real assault,” according to a statement from a Navy commander.

“If they do not surrender before 5am tomorrow, a real assault will be started against units and divisions of the armed forces across Crimea," Russia’s Black Sea Fleet Commander Alexander Vitko told the Interfax news agency Monday, Sky News reports.

 

[Brill]

There is plenty of liberal trash as well, as to the bold, I never said trash was an "anonym" of anything, partially because I don't know what an anonym is, and partially because I was not equating liberal with the trash that WT and Fox News regularly distribute. If I was equating liberal and conservative news outlets I would have compared Fox to MSNBC and Washington Times to...... I don't know New York Times I guess.

Anonym is old English form of antonym popularized by the Earl of Fat Finger and Duke of IPad.

 

[CQB]

Try Krauthammers' view linked from Chops editorial post, it's hardly liberal with more than a grain of truth.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/opinion...ca1b26-9fe0-11e3-9ba6-800d1192d08b_story.html

 

[Chopstick]

POTUS is taking a beating on social media. I cant help myself. This is a favorite of what Ive seen today.

 

[Brill]

For a completely different perspective:

(Or a classic example of PSYOPS)

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/04-03-2014/126998-kerry_kiev-0/

 

[DA SWO]

That's a pretty good point. So we are pretty much violating territorial integrity in Germany, or numerous other countries we have military bases in? Makes Russian incursion in the Crimean peninsula seem a lot less like an "invasion" violating Ukraine's sovereignty.

There are treaties governing those bases, we would leave if asked.
That is not violating their sovernty, or territorial integrity.

POTUS is taking a beating on social media. I cant help myself. This is a favorite of what Ive seen today.

View attachment 10528

That one is actually humerous.

 

[RackMaster]

Vice on the scene.

 

[Blizzard]

As has been stated earlier, how Russians view the actions and how they're being portrayed by the media there is very different (Russians view the protestor's actions as terrorist acts) from how the West views the actions. And while Russia's military is without question superior force, moving in and occupying Crimea without a shot is a much different situation than attempting to use force or move further on Ukraine. Doing so could become a much costlier endeavor than perhaps Putin realizes. The people of Ukraine aren't likely to just turn a cheek....just look at those protest videos.

Also, something we need to come to grips with is the idea that if we truly support democratic processes, we have to understand that sometimes shitbags will be elected to power, such as an Egypt, Afghanistan, etc. But if they are legitimately elected, shouldn't we honor the process, even if we don't like the results?

 

[Chopstick]

You know this is all George Bush's fault.
http://www.examiner.com/article/msnbc-s-rachel-maddow-blames-george-bush-for-ukraine

On Monday, MSNBC host Rachel Maddow told Andrea Mitchell that Bush administration policies in the Middle East are to blame for practically everything, including the current crisis in Ukraine, Newsmax reported.

“The decisions of our generation on national security are determined more than anything by what the George W. Bush administration did with that 9-year war in Iraq and, alongside it, a 13-year war in Afghanistan that’s still going on," Maddow said. "And the American people are against those wars."

“Those are the determinative constraints for our thinking about everything,” she added, “from Crimea, to Syria, to what the overall size of the U.S. military is.”

 

[DA SWO]

You know this is all George Bush's fault.
http://www.examiner.com/article/msnbc-s-rachel-maddow-blames-george-bush-for-ukraine

So she was against Iraq, but for a war in Syria?

 

[Chopstick]

So she was against Iraq, but for a war in Syria?

Hey now, she has a documentary to shill. Just you shut up with that logic stuff there Mr. Spock!

 

[Poetic_Mind]

As has been stated earlier, how Russians view the actions and how they're being portrayed by the media there is very different (Russians view the protestor's actions as terrorist acts) from how the West views the actions. And while Russia's military is without question superior force, moving in and occupying Crimea without a shot is a much different situation than attempting to use force or move further on Ukraine. Doing so could become a much costlier endeavor than perhaps Putin realizes. The people of Ukraine aren't likely to just turn a cheek....just look at those protest videos.

Also, something we need to come to grips with is the idea that if we truly support democratic processes, we have to understand that sometimes shitbags will be elected to power, such as an Egypt, Afghanistan, etc. But if they are legitimately elected, shouldn't we honor the process, even if we don't like the results?

We should, but we obviously won't. Yanukovych was fairly elected, but he doesn't fit our interests enough for us to care about democracy there. It's always been a "Russia First" policy. Our policy there is shaped by Russia--mainly its actions and threat of expanding influence and power.

 

[AWP]

Rachel Maddow is a fucking clown. I'd rather receive a foreign policy lecture from a class of third graders.

 

[Chopstick]

Rachel Maddow is a fucking clown. I'd rather receive a foreign policy lecture from a class of third graders.

Stay tuned for Kerry in Kiev tomorrow......

 

[AWP]

If Russia wants the Ukraine it will take the Ukraine and no one is going to do anything about it. The problem isn't stopping them, the problem is rolling over.

Europe can't afford to do much.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/04/news/economy/europe-russia-ukraine/index.html

BUT we have to do something, we have to try, or we really show the world how impotent we are.

http://cnnworldlive.cnn.com/Event/Crisis_in_Ukraine_2?hpt=hp_t1

CNN correspondent Matthew Chance, currently in Kiev, has a great point of view on the statements made today by Russian and U.S. leaders, particularly the warnings that Russia would be isolated if it does not de-escalate the tension.
"How do you isolate diplomatically a country which has a permanent seat on the United Nations Security Council? How do you isolate a country economically which is the biggest energy supplier in the world and supplies Ukraine, for instance, with 80% of its energy and Western Europe with a good 40% of its natural gas?" he asked.
He said there were no signs that Russia was loosening its hold on Crimea.
"There is a lot of rhetoric calling on Russia to do certain things. What I'm seeing ... is no real sense in which the Kremlin, Vladimir Putin, is going to be prepared - at this stage at least - to give an inch. He's got all the cards. Nobody is going to challenge him militarily. Not the Ukrainians, definitely not NATO and the United States."

 

[reed11b]

My experience with the Ukrainian military is a decade old, but unless they have gained a great deal of testicular fortitude from the time they stayed buttoned up in their BTRs in the multi-national zone of Iraq, I don't think things will go well for them if they choose to fight.
Reed

 

[Brill]

If you elect someone who has no real experience there "will be costs" and "consequences".

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles...4815004579416931451436234.html?mod=hp_opinion

 

[Centermass]

This whole thing is a game of Chess.

Putin has it mastered while our President is still learning the pieces.

I've said it several times here and I'll say it again - Once KGB, always KGB. His wardrobe may change, but his stripes underneath, never will.