Priority of the big lifts.

[reed11b]

Most basic strength programs talk of the importance of Squats, Deadlift, Bench, Overhead Press, Clean and sometimes Bent Over Row. What lifts do you prioritize for Military strength? My rank is
1. Squat (we use our legs in almost every activity
2. Deadlift (pick up heavy things + grip)
3. Bench (cause I like it damnit!)
4 Overhead Press (push heavy things up overhead, like on top of a track)
5 Clean (power)
I don't do the row, as it is difficult to do it right w/o hurting your back and do pull-ups instead.
What did I miss? Would you change the order of importance of any of the lifts?
Reed

 

[amorris127289]

My order would be
1. Clean
2. Clean pulls, rather than a dead lift
3. Squats, both front and back
4. Upper body pulls (body rows and pull-ups)
5. Upper body Presses

I rank the lifts in this order because cleans create power and triple extension. Clean pulls because I would rather be able to move a lot of weight fast rather than slow, however as your grip strength increases you will be able to pick more weights up slowly. Squats, every one needs squats. And presses are ranked fifth. Presses include bench and overhead and any other type of upper body presses these cannot be excluded no matter how minimal they transition into "functional movements" because studies have shown that as Americans we emphasize on the pushing motion rather than the pulling and if you cut them out completely (I am referring to flat bench) you will suffer psychologically with strength. I am only in my Senior year of college right now, Exercise Science Wellness Major, and not in the military but this is how we approach our athletes, and our view is if you make a more well rounded athlete, then everything else will get better around it. I love hearing other views on this topic, never stop learning.

 

[CDG]

Cleans and clean pulls are hitting the same basic muscle groups. The clean pull is an auxiliary lift used to improve the clean, it's not a raw strength movement. In my experience, a lot of people that advocate for avoiding deadlifts are just scared. The deadlift is a perfectly safe movement. People who fuck it up are the ones who are unsafe, not the lift. It's also the second best lift for building total body strength behind the squat, IMO.

 

[amorris127289]

CDG I love deadlifts. The reason I say clean pulls is because I am use to working with athletes for sports, and our head S&C coach's focus is on the cleans. My big three are Incline bench, Back squat, Deadlifts, and I have been following SOFWOD's so I get all my other work in or I supplement it in every now and then. I should of said a speed dead lift rather than a clean pull, I was picturing the video of Dave Castro doing his DL for like 15seconds when I was thinknig of a DL.

 

[amorris127289]

Which is more important, the big lifts or control of your own body weight? in your own opinion

 

[Hillclimb]

How are we defining military strength?

Squats
Running
Presses
Weighted or bw pullups

Running because fighting gravity with my 230lb fatass is a lift and magical to me. I typically shy from deadlifts because I've always been able to maintain a 405+ deadlift without deadlifting; just squatting.

 

[reed11b]

Football may be a poor sport comparison for military athletic needs. Though I doubt I would have made it through basic if it had not been for football and wrestling in HS, I can think of few times I needed explosive power in the military, but many times I needed long slog endurance and raw strength. When I talk of basic lifts, it's separate from long slog muscular endurance, so I don't consider running a lift. Paging Dr. A.Love Dr Love... @amlove21 .

 

[amorris127289]

What about sleds and farmer carry type exercises for overall strength? Did you use those by chance, in your PT or on your own?

 

[reed11b]

No on both, though both are coming up soon in future programming. Focusing on basic lifts as a core strength building and not trying to expand too much into alternative means of strength training. Basic lifts are familiar to most in the military, take little programming time and are easy to find resources on how to use good form and to correct bad form. Kind of a "if you had a barbell and could only choose 4-6 lifts, what would you choose and what priority" type question.
Reed

 

[amorris127289]

Do you have any experience with snatch?

 

[reed11b]

Do you have any experience with snatch?

Lots. Unless you mean the Olympic lift, in which case not so much...
Reed

 

[CDG]

No on both, though both are coming up soon in future programming. Focusing on basic lifts as a core strength building and not trying to expand too much into alternative means of strength training. Basic lifts are familiar to most in the military, take little programming time and are easy to find resources on how to use good form and to correct bad form. Kind of a "if you had a barbell and could only choose 4-6 lifts, what would you choose and what priority" type question.
Reed

If this is your goal, do Starting Strength from Rippetoe. By far the best basic strength program for a beginning lifter. When you grow out of it, move on to the Texas Method.

https://www.t-nation.com/training/texas-method

 

[reed11b]

If this is your goal, do Starting Strength from Rippetoe. By far the best basic strength program for a beginning lifter. When you grow out of it, move on to the Texas Method.

https://www.t-nation.com/training/texas-method

I have been doing Starting Strength. Not looking for a program, but more of a discussion of the benefits of the individual lifts. (I clearly suck at creating new topic threads) I will be checking out that Texas Method though, so thanks for that.
Reed

 

[SkrewzLoose]

Benefits = You become stronger
What exactly are you trying to figure out? What are you trying to accomplish by implementing these lifts?
Perhaps including what your (expected/hopeful) end game is would give us a bit more to work with regarding your question.

 

[reed11b]

Benefits = You become stronger
What exactly are you trying to figure out? What are you trying to accomplish by implementing these lifts?
Perhaps including what your (expected/hopeful) end game is would give us a bit more to work with regarding your question.

Yup, I suck at starting threads. *I* am not looking for anything. I'm already invested in my fitness programming, I was interested in a discussion on how *others* prioritized the big lifts in order of importance to them and why.
Reed

 

[Etype]

Olympic lifts are all done with controlled pulls, whereas the deadlift can be a true maximal effort pull. I wouldn't prioritize cleans or snatches above a deadlift unless I was an actual Olympic athlete.

 

[amlove21]

My order would be
1. Clean
2. Clean pulls, rather than a dead lift
3. Squats, both front and back
4. Upper body pulls (body rows and pull-ups)
5. Upper body Presses

I rank the lifts in this order because cleans create power and triple extension.

I would disagree here. Not with the bolded (true) but with ranking the clean highly because of the bolded. The clean develops power very well, but as far as military dudes and working out, making the clean the main food group (and going as far to add an assistance exercise for the clean as it's own area and excluding a traditional pull is off the mark, IMO.

I was picturing the video of Dave Castro doing his DL for like 15seconds when I was thinknig of a DL.

It was like, 45 seconds bro. And terrible.

Which is more important, the big lifts or control of your own body weight? in your own opinion

Well, I mean, both really. I'll expound on the main lifts in a second, but speed and agility work can be easily added to a very basic program with little or no detriment to the main program. Unless you're talking about true gymnastics, at which point I would say that (like any specialization) the juice is rarely worth the squeeze. Meaning, the time it takes to build/maintain that adaptation.

 

[amlove21]

I'll split this into two posts for the two topics.

If I was going to prioritize my programming, I would (and do) organize it like this-

1. Using a linear progression, I would focus on the squat, presses (bench and standing), deadlift, and all other pulls (pullups, rows, etc). This would be my basic food group.

You can "triple extend" all you want- if you cant lift 350 lbs and you need to lift 350 lbs, no amount of "developed power" or "speed and explosive pulling" is going to bail you out. I prefer overall global strength, I just feel it's more useful in general.

2. I would program variations of the above and include development of power as an accessory to the above. Clean and jerk, snatch, thruster, jumps and plyos, sled pulls/pushes, sprints, etc.

3. I would include bodyweight/speed and agility drills once a week. Shuttle runs, ladder/hurdle drills, gymnastic movements (ring work and the like) just for some rounding out.

So, @reed11b , I think you're just fine. There are a couple other programs out there (in addition to the already mentioned Texas Method) that are basically a step up from where you are now- Greyskull LP was great for me initially. If you ever decide to go hard in the paint, the Smolov cycle is amazing for gains, but nearly impossible to get through. I am starting my second cycle of Smolov tomorrow, coincidentally, and I am in no way looking forward to it.

 

[CDG]

I'll split this into two posts for the two topics.

If I was going to prioritize my programming, I would (and do) organize it like this-

1. Using a linear progression, I would focus on the squat, presses (bench and standing), deadlift, and all other pulls (pullups, rows, etc). This would be my basic food group.

You can "triple extend" all you want- if you cant lift 350 lbs and you need to lift 350 lbs, no amount of "developed power" or "speed and explosive pulling" is going to bail you out. I prefer overall global strength, I just feel it's more useful in general.

2. I would program variations of the above and include development of power as an accessory to the above. Clean and jerk, snatch, thruster, jumps and plyos, sled pulls/pushes, sprints, etc.

3. I would include bodyweight/speed and agility drills once a week. Shuttle runs, ladder/hurdle drills, gymnastic movements (ring work and the like) just for some rounding out.

So, @reed11b , I think you're just fine. There are a couple other programs out there (in addition to the already mentioned Texas Method) that are basically a step up from where you are now- Greyskull LP was great for me initially. If you ever decide to go hard in the paint, the Smolov cycle is amazing for gains, but nearly impossible to get through. I am starting my second cycle of Smolov tomorrow, coincidentally, and I am in no way looking forward to it.

Great post. John Sheaffer really knows his stuff. I had done some private consulting with him and had amazing results. This was back in my competitive CrossFit days though. I also had great results with the Outlaw Method. Sadly, I just can't do programs like that and still maintain the running and bodyweight fitness for work. More power to you for doing Smolov brother. Fuck. That. Shit.

 

[amlove21]

Great post. John Sheaffer really knows his stuff. I had done some private consulting with him and had amazing results. This was back in my competitive CrossFit days though. I also had great results with the Outlaw Method. Sadly, I just can't do programs like that and still maintain the running and bodyweight fitness for work. More power to you for doing Smolov brother. Fuck. That. Shit.

Smolov really is a hellish nightmare. The squat is my best lift, and I wanna squat 500 this year. I hit 350 for 10 about a week ago, and tomorrow my work set looks like 350 for 7 sets of 5 reps. It's freaking taxing squatting 3-4 times a week.

My wife is actually Outlaw SC certified, and I love their programming. Some of their personalities I could do without, but it's not a deal breaker. Good catch on that one, shouldn't have left it out.