Pro Kremlin Party now has power to modify constitution

[BloodStripe]

I was reading today about all the various countries expelling Russian diplomats today over the poisoning of the former spy and his daughter and was shocked to see that Ukraine still has allowed Russia to keep its embassy in Ukraine. Call me crazy, but if you are running a proxy war in my country and annexing parts of it, I would not allow you to keep open an embassy.

 

[NFB19]

This whole business with escalating tensions over the poisoning of a former double agent is fishy. I truly don't believe the Kremlin had anything to do with it. Why, after nearly 30 years since the Cold War, would they just now decide to take out a defector? Why would they use the very Russian sounding nerve agent Novichoks (rough Russian equivalent translation of gringo/gaijin)? Some believe it is Russia posturing and sending a message to its agents. Hard no, I'm sure their agents know the possible backlash without seeing a state-sponsored assassination on the news. Great Britain's knee jerk reaction, and the countries following suit, is both ill-informed and not advisable. If Russia wanted a former agent dead, I'm certain they are very capable of making that person disappear and/or at least making their demise look 'accidental'. They certainly wouldn't use a very Russian sounding chemical nerve agent (the chemical formula of which is published for the public domain) against some intel officer defector that has been out of the game for decades.

 

[Devildoc]

@NFB19 , it isn't the first time. It's at least the second one that we know about. Not sure what you do or how much you know about Soviet/Russian posturing, but historically they like to be loud and proud of their antics, not just to warn other Russian dissidents, but also to put other countries on notice. Twenty two countries have expelled 137 Russian diplomats, accounting for hundreds of years of foreign service and intelligence knowledge, so I think there's more 'there' there.

 

[Etype]

Why, after nearly 30 years since the Cold War, would they just now decide to take out a defector?

The reason why is the HUNDREDS of Soviet and Russian defectors, over 40 of which have come directly from their intelligence community.

The message is this- you will not live a peaceful life, if you slight us, we will come for you.

When they fail to be motovated by patriotism, the system will motivate them with fear of repercussions.

 

[NFB19]

@NFB19 , it isn't the first time. It's at least the second one that we know about. Not sure what you do or how much you know about Soviet/Russian posturing, but historically they like to be loud and proud of their antics, not just to warn other Russian dissidents, but also to put other countries on notice. Twenty two countries have expelled 137 Russian diplomats, accounting for hundreds of years of foreign service and intelligence knowledge, so I think there's more 'there' there.

The reason why is the HUNDREDS of Soviet and Russian defectors, over 40 of which have come directly from their intelligence community.

The message is this- you will not live a peaceful life, if you slight us, we will come for you.

When they fail to be motovated by patriotism, the system will motivate them with fear of repercussions.

Yes, Russia has a history with being a bit "loud" with their posturing, but it is not done without reason. There is something strategic about it. This move created a negative value. Russia surely would have realized this would be the international reaction to their alleged poisoning of the defector. I agree, it is not above Russia to inspire fear in defectors and current agents, but I believe Putin is smarter than this. What is more valuable: instilling fear into defectors and agents in a very public way, or maintaining current intelligence plugs in key foreign states? To me the answer is easy.

I cannot begin to assume who may have staged the poisoning, but I don't believe it was Russia. Someone very smart, knowing where the finger would be pointed, and knowing the backlash, set this up. Putin, at least, was enjoying a very buddy-ish relationship with Trump, which has allowed him to make moves against us and our allies without much repercussion. That is gone now. I just don't see how Russia could have thought they would benefit from this.

 

[Devildoc]

@NFB19, here's the dangerous assumption westerners make about Russia, and it has happened to all of us and the best of us: we assume Russia thinks a) like us, and b) rationally. They may look like us (i.e., western, Caucasian), but that's about as far as the similarities goes. They have a 250+ year history of irrational thinking, paranoia, and illogical and unjustified actions.

I don't know what Putin, et al., were thinking. I doubt anyone does. But apparently the evidence to those with access must be pretty damning; Mattis, who is about as objective and non-reactionary as they come, has endorsed the intel that it was Russia's doing.

 

[SaintKP]

I can see it from the standpoint that Putin or whoever, did it as previously stated to make a huge statement.

Russia has almost always been ruled by an iron fisted leader, since even before the the Mongols subjugated it's principalities and up to present day with Putin. What better way to let your populace know that nothing is outside your reach and that you're willing to make a great deal of noise to get your point across, than to make it almost publicly known that you performed a state sponsored assassination regardless of the potential repercussions? Also this wouldn't be the first time Novichok was used by the Russians to kill off other Russians.

Also it may be because I just got done reading True Faith and Allegiance but how likely is it that someone got their hands on some old school soviet developed chemical weapons? How much military hardware went missing during the fall of the Soviet Union? If someone out there wanted to really stir the pot and cause confusion, this would be a pretty good way.

 

[Etype]

1. There is something strategic about it. This move created a negative value. Russia surely would have realized this would be the international reaction to their alleged poisoning of the defector.

2. What is more valuable: instilling fear into defectors and agents in a very public way, or maintaining current intelligence plugs in key foreign states? To me the answer is easy.

1. The strategic factor comes in the reminder that there will be consequences for actions against the state, no matter how long it takes.

2. The value is in showing that you will pay for your choices no matter what the political price, and that there is no safe haven for traitors to the state.

Additionally, with the policy of reciprocity, Russia doesn't "lose" anything, they evict a comparable number of diplomats from Russia. Who's to say they weren't looking for a reason to oust several dozen British diplomats?

 

[NFB19]

Also it may be because I just got done reading True Faith and Allegiance but how likely is it that someone got their hands on some old school soviet developed chemical weapons? How much military hardware went missing during the fall of the Soviet Union? If someone out there wanted to really stir the pot and cause confusion, this would be a pretty good way.

It is very available. Several of the old Soviet chemists who worked on the Novichok project back in the day have defected all over the place. I believe a prof at Princeton (can't remember his name) even published the formula for it at some point. Also found this article:
Soviet-era scientist says he helped create poison in UK spy attack row

 

[RackMaster]

It is very available. Several of the old Soviet chemists who worked on the Novichok project back in the day have defected all over the place. I believe a prof at Princeton (can't remember his name) even published the formula for it at some point. Also found this article:
Soviet-era scientist says he helped create poison in UK spy attack row

And if that's the case, when Russia finds out who did it; they'll kill off everyone involved and possibly their families, first.

 

[Devildoc]

And if that's the case, when Russia finds out who did it; they'll kill off everyone involved and possibly their families, first.

See "Alpha Group." I mean, the Russians have tactics that put the mafia to shame.