Q-Course now to include MFF

[Lycurgus]

Great point about the size issue. When it comes down to actual operators, the number is even smaller. The SQT classes do not have to share the jump school, but when they send the older SEALs we have to compete for a spot which doesn't make a lot of sense. In my class we had Navy EOD, Air Force PJs, and even an Army weather person, among others. We have a huge problem with logistics as well, we do not have the support we need to maintain a high level of proficiency, especially in regards to combat equipment jumps.

 

[Brian1/75]

Great point about the size issue. When it comes down to actual operators, the number is even smaller. The SQT classes do not have to share the jump school, but when they send the older SEALs we have to compete for a spot which doesn't make a lot of sense. In my class we had Navy EOD, Air Force PJs, and even an Army weather person, among others. We have a huge problem with logistics as well, we do not have the support we need to maintain a high level of proficiency, especially in regards to combat equipment jumps.

Are there still a decent amount of guys in the Teams not qualified?

 

[Lycurgus]

No, for an operator not to be MFF qualified now would be extremely rare.

 

[freeflyguy]

If this gets implemented, it'll be way down the road. I'll honestly be surprised to see it happen. We have a guy in our company who used to be an instructor out there and they had 3 guys go en route from the Q in 2012, and 2 of them failed out. When I went through the course last year they were no longer sending guys from the Q. There's a million issues that go along with trying to qualify every guy, the first of which is the shortage of instructors out there. They're running pretty tight right now with the number they have. How are they going to plus up enough to start sending all the guys that are going through the Q, and qualify all the tabbed guys that still need it?

 

[freeflyguy]

And I just realized that the last post was a year and a half ago. Goes to show how much push back this whole plan is taking.

 

[TLDR20]

When I left SWCS last May they were still planning on implementing this. They were building a new barracks and chow hall at Yuma to facilitate this expansion. I don't know what happened to that.

 

[DA SWO]

When I left SWCS last May they were still planning on implementing this. They were building a new barracks and chow hall at Yuma to facilitate this expansion. I don't know what happened to that.

Sequestration.

I wonder what the AF/Navy pass rates are?

 

[TLDR20]

Sequestration.

I wonder what the AF/Navy pass rates are?

The Navy has their own school now.

 

[TLDR20]

They also hired a bunch of GS-11's to be instructors out there. So I doubt this is just going away.

 

[DA SWO]

They also hired a bunch of GS-11's to be instructors out there. So I doubt this is just going away.

???

I said I was curious what the pass rates are? Previous poster sais SF had a 2/3 failure rate for guys going as part of the SFQC.

AF has two career fields requireing MFF completion, so I was curious if the AF and Navy had a 2/3rds failure rate..

 

[Brill]

They also hired a bunch of GS-11's to be instructors out there. So I doubt this is just going away.

That's some fine pay for AZ! Teaching folks to fly AND getting a fat check too! Good on 'em!

 

[TLDR20]

???

I said I was curious what the pass rates are? Previous poster sais SF had a 2/3 failure rate for guys going as part of the SFQC.

AF has two career fields requireing MFF completion, so I was curious if the AF and Navy had a 2/3rds failure rate..

Well that quote wasn't to you. So it makes sense that you are confused.

 

[Teufel]

the idiots wanting to make this happen are stupider than brand new privates....... you nailed it with "what about the logistics" part........ and the cost of having enough FF chutes, o2 bottles, yadayadayada........ and as 18C4V said.... JM, ATIC slots, proficiency and currency?

Yeah, cool idea...... will it actually happen with the impending socialist demilitarization, errr, budget cuts....... NO.

Exactly. Where is the demand signal for this? I'm all about guys going to freefall but does every SF guy need to be a freefaller? Especially in this era of budget cuts? I run into the same thing at recon. Going to freefall school makes you a qualified freefall parachutists, not a proficient one. Are they going to run everyone through freefall packages now? I'm not sure the juice is worth the squeeze on this one.

 

[DA SWO]

Exactly. Where is the demand signal for this? I'm all about guys going to freefall but does every SF guy need to be a freefaller? Especially in this era of budget cuts? I run into the same thing at recon. Going to freefall school makes you a qualified freefall parachutists, not a proficient one. Are they going to run everyone through freefall packages now? I'm not sure the juice is worth the squeeze on this one.

The AF Training system is broke, which is why FF/SCUBA are part of the CCT pipeline.

CCT could probably reduce the number of FF/SCUBA dudes with minimal impact.

 

[0699]

Exactly. Where is the demand signal for this? I'm all about guys going to freefall but does every SF guy need to be a freefaller? Especially in this era of budget cuts? I run into the same thing at recon. Going to freefall school makes you a qualified freefall parachutists, not a proficient one. Are they going to run everyone through freefall packages now? I'm not sure the juice is worth the squeeze on this one.

Ugh. Major pet-peeve, no matter the skill. Just because you took a course three years ago doesn't mean you are an expert. Hell, unless you are constantly practicing and validating that skill, you probably can't even perform to standard. :wall:

 

[freeflyguy]

When I left SWCS last May they were still planning on implementing this. They were building a new barracks and chow hall at Yuma to facilitate this expansion. I don't know what happened to that.

I was under the impression that they were doing that in order to save money on the guys heading there now. I know they just got the wind-tunnel up and running so they can cut out Ft Bragg from it all together.

 

[swimr235]

Interesting. From an outsiders perspective it seems a little over kill to have everyone MFF qualed, no? This is assuming I know what Im talking about, which I dont really. But if im correct MFF includes HALO and HAHO? One of thse being a clandestine method for insertion, right? Its funny, SOFREPs latest podcast with Jack Murphy had a question very similar to this and he made a very good argument against having everyone MFF qualed, SCUBA qualed and Mountain qualed. He went on to say that maintaining quals for all of these takes away from training that could be better used somewhere else. Once again, im an outsider without much knowledge on the matter, outside of what I have learned on here and from freinds and acquaintances that have been in this environment.

 

[18C4V]

One of my guys graduated last Friday at YPG from MFF, his class was the last one that reported to Bragg. The class after his reported to YPG. My two cents are the same ones I made a few years ago in this thread.

 

[Ranger Psych]

Interesting. From an outsiders perspective it seems a little over kill to have everyone MFF qualed, no? This is assuming I know what Im talking about, which I dont really. But if im correct MFF includes HALO and HAHO? One of thse being a clandestine method for insertion, right? Its funny, SOFREPs latest podcast with Jack Murphy had a question very similar to this and he made a very good argument against having everyone MFF qualed, SCUBA qualed and Mountain qualed. He went on to say that maintaining quals for all of these takes away from training that could be better used somewhere else. Once again, im an outsider without much knowledge on the matter, outside of what I have learned on here and from freinds and acquaintances that have been in this environment.

MFF in general is simply an insertion technique. It's the first few hours of a mission of indeterminate length, just like regular military parachuting. High/Low opening just changes up where the aircraft you're departing can be at in relation to your desired landing point on the ground.

 

[swimr235]

MFF in general is simply an insertion technique. It's the first few hours of a mission of indeterminate length, just like regular military parachuting. High/Low opening just changes up where the aircraft you're departing can be at in relation to your desired landing point on the ground.

Thank for explaining that. It does make things much clearer to me from your stand point. I appreciate your insight as someone with experience. Thanks.