Random Interesting Bits of History

[AWP]

I read that the 8th Army Air Force lost more men than The Marines in the pacific. Which is just mind boggling to me.

8th AF vs USMC
26,000 KIA vs 24,500 KIA
21,000 WIA vs 68,000 WIA
28,000 vs 2,200 POW

75,000 vs 94,700 Total

https://www.8af.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/333794/eighth-air-force-history/
https://www.usmcu.edu/Research/Marine-Corps-History-Division/Research-Tools-Facts-and-Figures/
Brief History of the Eighth Air Force

 

[Cookie_]

I visited Alcatraz in 2009. It has a very interesting history, but it would cost a shit ton to bring that place up to modern standards and staff it. I thought we were trying to cut costs (DOGE). Are we not doing that anymore?

It would be kinda cool though.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/17/us/alcatraz-prison-trump-bondi-burgum-visit.html

Them even entertaining the idea of of re-opening it as a facility is dumb as hell. We already have a place that holds the "worst of the worst"; the ADX.

Similar to Alcatraz in its heyday, the ADX can hold roughly ~500 inmates, but averaged 350 when I worked there. Our staff to inmate ratio was just over 1:1 from what I remember a LT telling me. Takes a ton of people to run a supermax!

Trying to transport that to an island is stupid. Aside from the general cost and logistical constraints, you run into massive issues with staffing.

Staff housing, dedicated ferry, protected parking, possible lack of local applicants/willing transplants, etc.
Add in the fact that it'd be less supported in medical/disturbance events than the ADX due to it being a freaking island and we get a more expensive but worse prison.

 

[Marauder06]

Them even entertaining the idea of of re-opening it as a facility is dumb as hell. We already have a place that holds the "worst of the worst"; the ADX.

Similar to Alcatraz in its heyday, the ADX can hold roughly ~500 inmates, but averaged 350 when I worked there. Our staff to inmate ratio was just over 1:1 from what I remember a LT telling me. Takes a ton of people to run a supermax!

Trying to transport that to an island is stupid. Aside from the general cost and logistical constraints, you run into massive issues with staffing.

Staff housing, dedicated ferry, protected parking, possible lack of local applicants/willing transplants, etc.
Add in the fact that it'd be less supported in medical/disturbance events than the ADX due to it being a freaking island and we get a more expensive but worse prison.

^concur. We have PLENTY of better places that would cost less and have the same effect. I don't see any benefit to reconditioning that crumbling infrastructure. Keeping people in prison is already expensive enough when we can just call something else "Alcatraz" and it has more or less the same effect as the real thing.

 

[Cookie_]

^concur. We have PLENTY of better places that would cost less and have the same effect. I don't see any benefit to reconditioning that crumbling infrastructure. Keeping people in prison is already expensive enough when we can just call something else "Alcatraz" and it has more or less the same effect as the real thing.

If only we already had a Recently closed federal prison in the (relatively) local area.

 

[Topkick]

Alcatraz brings in over 60 million per year to the fed as an attraction. I'd bet the state of California benefits well from tourism as well. I think maintaining it as a museum makes way more sense.

 

[AWP]

Until they spend money this is a photo op and emotional moment for the base. Not unlike another promise recently in the news...

 

[Topkick]

Until they spend money this is a photo op and emotional moment for the base. Not unlike another promise recently in the news...

Newsom says Alcatraz will reopen the ‘same day Trump releases the Epstein files’

 

[BloodStripe]

8th AF vs USMC
26,000 KIA vs 24,500 KIA
21,000 WIA vs 68,000 WIA
28,000 vs 2,200 POW

75,000 vs 94,700 Total

https://www.8af.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/333794/eighth-air-force-history/
https://www.usmcu.edu/Research/Marine-Corps-History-Division/Research-Tools-Facts-and-Figures/
Brief History of the Eighth Air Force

This stat is crazy.

 

[AWP]

This stat is crazy.

I had an idea and it was worse than I thought...

Ground Casualties on Guadalcanal vs. USAAF casualties during Big Week.

USAAF vs Ground Forces on Guadalcanal

2,600 vs 6,300 (does not include medical/ disease to my knowledge)

6 days vs 6 months. That is insane, absolutely bonkers. I'm going to stop there though I know US Navy casualties for the Guadalcanal campaign are greater than the USMC's...which is also insane given what the Marines experienced.

 

[BloodStripe]

I had an idea and it was worse than I thought...

Ground Casualties on Guadalcanal vs. USAAF casualties during Big Week.

USAAF vs Ground Forces on Guadalcanal

2,600 vs 6,300 (does not include medical/ disease to my knowledge)

6 days vs 6 months. That is insane, absolutely bonkers. I'm going to stop there though I know US Navy casualties for the Guadalcanal campaign are greater than the USMC's...which is also insane given what the Marines experienced.

Marines took 2500 casualties on Iwo Jima on the first day alone. A total of almost 25k over the 36 days of fighting. In total, for every three Marines or Corpsmen who landed, one would be a casualty.

Closing In: Marines in the Seizure of Iwo Jima (Iwo Jima's Costs, Gains, and Legacies)

 

[AWP]

Marines took 2500 casualties on Iwo Jima on the first day alone. A total of almost 25k over the 36 days of fighting. In total, for every three Marines or Corpsmen who landed, one would be a casualty.

Closing In: Marines in the Seizure of Iwo Jima (Iwo Jima's Costs, Gains, and Legacies)

As utterly horrific as it was for the Marines, 24,761 B-29 aircrew alone used it as an emergency strip. 2,251 B-29's landed there out of 3,97 B-29's built* so that's a pretty good ROI in a strategic sense.

Barbaric casualties for the Marines though.

* 3,970 were built but production ended in 1946 and some built during the war never made it overseas. 414 were lost bombing Japan, so a good number of those 2,251 had to be repeat visitors.

 

[DA SWO]

As utterly horrific as it was for the Marines, 24,761 B-29 aircrew alone used it as an emergency strip. 2,251 B-29's landed there out of 3,97 B-29's built* so that's a pretty good ROI in a strategic sense.

Barbaric casualties for the Marines though.

* 3,970 were built but production ended in 1946 and some built during the war never made it overseas. 414 were lost bombing Japan, so a good number of those 2,251 had to be repeat visitors.

Bockscar landed there after bombing Nagasaki.

 

[Jaknight]

Marines took 2500 casualties on Iwo Jima on the first day alone. A total of almost 25k over the 36 days of fighting. In total, for every three Marines or Corpsmen who landed, one would be a casualty.

Closing In: Marines in the Seizure of Iwo Jima (Iwo Jima's Costs, Gains, and Legacies)

How big was Iwo Jima?

 

[Devildoc]

How big was Iwo Jima?

About 8 square miles.

 

[DA SWO]

Learned this today.
1st TBF Avenger was rolled out on Dec 7, 1941.
The roll out ceremony was interrupted by news of the Pearl Harbor attack.

 

[Blizzard]

No need to waste time and unnecessarily complicate things:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1950581585239069161

 

[Devildoc]

Patton's comment about how he rates Bradley is great: how would you rate him among the general officers? " Number one, and I know them all."

 

[AWP]

Patton's comment about how he writes Bradley is great: how would you rate him among the general officers? " Number one, and I know them all."

That jumped out at me too. Pure gangster and one hell of a source, none other than George Patton...remarkable.