Running at Altitude

@Florida173, it sounds like your doc thinks you may have obstructive or restrictive lung dz or a component of bronchospasm. That sucks.

I definitely do.. and at sea level I've been managing with out meds. Definitely see the difference with them... just ran 2 miles at 16 on the treadmill.. do just gonna work the sprints more. Only need to pass in near term and going to work on gaining major improvement while I'm here.
 
My Advanced Exercise Physiology teacher, who is also a world class marathoner. Their are negatives to taking baking soda orally, specifically bloating.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...e---if-it-doesnt-make-you-sick/article623582/

I just picked a random web article, a common expression on this forum is applicable here, "a simple Google search would provide the answers you seek." But if that is not enough this next link will lead you to a very well renowned Journal for sport related studies. http://www.jissn.com/content/7/1/7

How about you drop the smart ass attitude.

Fucking college kids.
 
My Advanced Exercise Physiology teacher, who is also a world class marathoner. Their are negatives to taking baking soda orally, specifically bloating.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...e---if-it-doesnt-make-you-sick/article623582/

I just picked a random web article, a common expression on this forum is applicable here, "a simple Google search would provide the answers you seek." But if that is not enough this next link will lead you to a very well renowned Journal for sport related studies. http://www.jissn.com/content/7/1/7
View attachment 12887

Cool, lets debate and look at this a little closer.

It is important in any debate to look at the questions very closely.

You wrote:
I am assuming the pain in your calves is caused by a build up of lactic acid, which commonly occured through out the body when it is not used to a typw of physical exertion. Try foam rolling or massaging of them and add some kind of bicarbonate to your diet (baking soda). The bicarbonate will help filter out the extra hydrogen molecule that is produced during exercise...which is what causes the pain.

#1) I asked where you got this info.

Because, I really don't know what causes the pain or cramping.

In fact, this is what a review article in 2010 said as well:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23015948.
Exercise-associated muscle cramps: causes, treatment, and prevention.
They reviewed articles from 1955-2008. Their conclusion was that cramps were "due to several factors" and there is "uncertainty in their cause." That is the latest PubMed review article for the search term "exercise muscle cramps". It's on page 5 of 19.

So you seem to be suggesting that drinking sodium bicarbonate "filter out" extra hydrogen molecule.

Then you gave me some articles to read.

I looked at that Journal and that particular paragraph you included. I'm glad it showed the footnotes. At first glance, it seems pretty positive. Then I read the footnotes.

#2) Footnote #405:
Effects of chronic bicarbonate ingestion on the performance of high-intensity work
This study did not address bicarb ingestion for pain. It measured peak power, pH, and bicarb levels for the various study groups. This was about drinking bicarb 5 days pre-workout. Not acutely for muscle cramps.

#3) Footnote #406 was not even a study. Worthless

#4) Footnote #407 was an article about nutritional approaches on dogs and horses.

#5) Footnote #408 was a study:
Effects of multibuffer supplementation on acid-base balance and 2,3-diphosphoglycerate following repetitive anaerobic exercise
According to the abstract, it studied a supplement (with many things, including bicarb) on performance and level of serum 2,3 DPG.
Here's a direct quote from their study: "The data indicate that this supplement does not affect acid-base status with following intense anaerobic exercise and does not improve repetitive WT performance."

#6) Footnote #409 was a review published in 1993 (please see #1):
Effects of sodium bicarbonate ingestion on anaerobic performance: a meta-analytic review.
The authors conclude that "results have been inconsistent and often contradictory." Their abstract shows that there is alkalosis but "the treatment effect, however, was only weakly related to the degree of induced alkalosis."

Finally, #7) Footnote #410 was a study published in 2008:
Sodium bicarbonate improves swimming performance.
Finally, this appears to be an interesting study. 3 things jumped out at me.
a) Performance improved.
b) "blood lactate concentrations were significantly higher following the SB trial compared with P and C". That's NAHCO3 (SB), placebo and control.
c) They used SB in gel capsules, not straight water dilutional.

Funny thing.

If one critically reads the footnotes, it really doesn't seem to support what this Journal is saying. Granted I only looked at the abstracts.

Also, none of these address drinking sodium bicarb in water as antidotes to muscle cramping, to "filter" lactate, by which I think you mean, buffer.

This, after all, is the original question that I posed to you.

I did some original research years ago as part of my Bachelor's honor's thesis on muscle contraction, electrolytes and caffeine use and I currently dabble in health related issues somewhat, so I have some interest and experience in this.

Lastly, and the real reason that I posted here:

Many folks who aspire to greatness and to be SOF use this site for critical information.

You really should peruse your data prior to posting on here. Giving erroneous advise or one not backed by research is just so not right.

Oh, BTW, I did use Google.
 
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0069 I was trying to build credibility behind my statement.
Then returned sarcasm to where it was dealt.

You need to work on both.

I've been sarcassed by the best on 5/7 continents.

I had this dude tell me once that he would kill me if I didn't give him Oxy's.

Said he was some secret squirrel ex-Marine type.

Said he was gonna do some push ups prior to kicking my ass.

I then got on the floor and pushed it out with him and did 2 more, one for the Corps and one for Chesty as he lay on the floor.

I stood up and told him that my death awaited his resurrection.

You, young sir, do not know sarcasm.
 
For all of our information. I just looked into it a little, the cramps are caused by neurological systems where as the pain MAY be caused by the lactic acid. Some articles say muscle delayed soreness is caused by lactic acid while others say it is not. If it's cramps, potassium supplements could help. If it is not cramping try baking soda, look up a drink recipe. Be aware it may upset your stomach so do not continue if this occurs.
 
My Advanced Exercise Physiology teacher, who is also a world class marathoner. Their are negatives to taking baking soda orally, specifically bloating.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...e---if-it-doesnt-make-you-sick/article623582/

I just picked a random web article, a common expression on this forum is applicable here, "a simple Google search would provide the answers you seek." But if that is not enough this next link will lead you to a very well renowned Journal for sport related studies. http://www.jissn.com/content/7/1/7
View attachment 12887

0069 I was trying to build credibility behind my statement.
Then returned sarcasm to where it was dealt.

Drop your smartass fucking attitude, if it returns you will be dealt with appropriately.
 
You can drink all the baking soda you want. I hated running when I first started. I got bad shin splints and I was fucking slow. You know how I got over it and got faster? I ran more. I stretched and foam rolled appropriately. Then, I ran more. I hate to make it sound so simple, but there it is...
 
You can drink all the baking soda you want. I hated running when I first started. I got bad shin splints and I was fucking slow. You know how I got over it and got faster? I ran more. I stretched and foam rolled appropriately. Then, I ran more. I hate to make it sound so simple, but there it is...

That can work, but not in all cases. That can make things significantly worse, depending on the condition of the shins.
Shin splints sometimes require a rest then build up period of many weeks, along with drugs etc...
Ask me how I know :wall: :thumbsdown:
 
For all of our information. I just looked into it a little, the cramps are caused by neurological systems where as the pain MAY be caused by the lactic acid. Some articles say muscle delayed soreness is caused by lactic acid while others say it is not. If it's cramps, potassium supplements could help. If it is not cramping try baking soda, look up a drink recipe. Be aware it may upset your stomach so do not continue if this occurs.


Here's the deal, amorris: Before you come back on this forum, or any other forum, with medical advice, spend a few more years in undergrad studies, pre-med to be specific. Take another four years for medical school, to be followed up by a residency. Pass some board exams, and get credentialed to practice medicine somewhere. Once you have done that, your will still be way behind in any professional experience in the field of medicine, to even begin to suggest 865Marine look at, read or consider anything you might suggest in the field of medicine. You are well out of your lane.
 
pardus So, run...fully recover (ice, motrin, mobilizing)...run...fully recover...etcetera until your recovery time is a day or two vice weeks or a month?
 
pardus So, run...fully recover (ice, motrin, mobilizing)...run...fully recover...etcetera until your recovery time is a day or two vice weeks or a month?

My specific case was dealt with by a former Navy doc (assigned to the USMC).
When I went to see him I was so bad I couldn't lift my toes to even walk. I was sliding my feet forward like a moron. The plan I was given, and that was successful was 6 weeks no running while taking a very high Motrin dose, then a slow build up that included ice/compression packs, elevation, stretching, while continuing the high dose Motrin.
To this day I am anal about stretching my calves before I run. Haven't had it back since.
 
Interesting. Sounds similar to the achilles tendinitis I developed while in my pipeline... It hurt to walk, let alone run, in soft sand, in the ocean, on the road, you get the point. Anyhow, I was told there were no stress fractures and the only way for it to heal was to "stay off of it for 2 weeks". Here's some vitamin-M, you're fit for full duty. FUCK. That's when I dropped and, no shit, 2 weeks later it was like it never happened. Now, as you said, I'm very anal about stretching my achilles and calves before I run. Ounce of prevention and all that...
 
0069 I was trying to build credibility behind my statement.
Then returned sarcasm to where it was dealt.

@8654Maine has done the things you aspire to do. Until you've done them, you don't rate to be sarcastic with him. All you rate is to be respectful. You don't have to kiss his (or anyone else's) ass, but learn your place. This isn't "everyone is equal Sesame Street.com"...
 
Lots of words not worth reading in here!

Really appreciate the suggestions from everyone though

One thing that did help me when I moved just outside Colorado Springs was "climb high, sleep low". Each chance you get, go hiking/walking the local trails.

I lived at 7K for a few months, barely hitting that 8 min/mile for 5, before taking a APFT in Jackson, MS and did very well (100 pts for me is 14:06 :p).
 
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