School shootings are now part of our culture.

Marauder06

Intel Enabler
Verified SOF
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
11,208
Location
CONUS

runninrunninrunnin

Unverified
Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Messages
49
Good job law enforcement!

I don’t get how this is a terrorist act though. Doesn’t terrorism require a political angle? This looks to me more like gang violence.
I believe he made threats against certain people at the prom. Then when he showed up it meant he intended to follow through with them. Just a guess though, haven’t a clue how the DA would make it a terror charge.
 

runninrunninrunnin

Unverified
Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Messages
49
What are you sourcing from?
The news article said he made threats to certain people.
“Police and school district officials investigated the matter and say that Michael Coleman, 18, had made threats against specific people within Bayside High's school zone.”
 

SaintKP

Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2017
Messages
1,067
Location
Midwest
I believe he made threats against certain people at the prom. Then when he showed up it meant he intended to follow through with them. Just a guess though, haven’t a clue how the DA would make it a terror charge.

Terroristic threats are pretty open on who can be charged with them, basically make a threat to bodily harm that would result in terror to the public and it can stick.

I saw it a lot through high school and middle school, but whether they follow through with the charge is another thing entirely. Plus I'm not entirely sure if Virginia has a statute for it to begin with.
 

policemedic

Verified SWAT
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
5,716
Location
A galaxy far, far away
I believe he made threats against certain people at the prom. Then when he showed up it meant he intended to follow through with them. Just a guess though, haven’t a clue how the DA would make it a terror charge.

Terroristic threats are pretty open on who can be charged with them, basically make a threat to bodily harm that would result in terror to the public and it can stick.

I saw it a lot through high school and middle school, but whether they follow through with the charge is another thing entirely. Plus I'm not entirely sure if Virginia has a statute for it to begin with.

There is a world of difference between the criminal charges of terroristic threats and terrorism.
 

SaintKP

Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2017
Messages
1,067
Location
Midwest
There is a world of difference between the criminal charges of terroristic threats and terrorism.


I know that, I didnt read the article when I had originally posted what I did and just based it off of how the title was worded. I figured they were getting charged with terroristic threats instead of conspiring to commit. My fault.
 

Gunz

Combined Action
Verified Military
Joined
Jun 29, 2014
Messages
7,764
I can think of several reasons an adult would want a rifle: hunting, sport shooting, and of course protection. If I ever had to protect myself from another human being, especially a group of human beings, I’d want a rifle.

A 19 year old is a full citizen on our country, empowered and some would say expected to protect themselves and their nation. If the person is a male, then he is part of the militia by Title X US Code.

The purpose of having access to firearms under our Co stitutjon is to defend our rights for those who would try and take them. In my opinion, that includes access to the civilian version of the standard light infantry weapons that would be used to oppress them.


I would add for our friend @Poccington that the tradition of gun ownership is extremely deep-rooted in this country, handed down from generation to generation, especially in more rural areas. My dad, a WW2 vet, taught me how to shoot when I was about 8. And I taught all my sons. And they'll teach their children. And the US is so big, rural areas abound. There are a million places to go and shoot, or hunt or engage in marksmanship, sporting clays, competitive shooting etc.

I live in rural Florida. Everybody has guns. Why? Because places are so spread out it takes LEOs a long time to get to where you are. And this is even more pronounced in the Western US.

As far as urban life goes, no need to point out the dangers there.
 

Box

Verified SOF
Joined
Mar 19, 2018
Messages
423
Here is a thought...

If a 19 year old cant be trusted with a firearm - then they sure as hell should NOT be allowed to vote.
..or drive

The ballot box is a LOT more dangerous than a firearm.
...and cars are simply killing the shit out of innocent people
 

DA SWO

SOWT
Verified SOF
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
9,693
Location
San Antonio Texas
Here is a thought...

If a 19 year old cant be trusted with a firearm - then they sure as hell should NOT be allowed to vote.
..or drive

The ballot box is a LOT more dangerous than a firearm.
...and cars are simply killing the shit out of innocent people
or drink, or smoke or get drafted.
 

Dienekes

Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
311
Location
DC Area
Here is a thought...

If a 19 year old cant be trusted with a firearm - then they sure as hell should NOT be allowed to vote.
..or drive

The ballot box is a LOT more dangerous than a firearm.
...and cars are simply killing the shit out of innocent people
or drink, or smoke or get drafted.

To clarify, I’m firmly in these camps along with Ococka ‘s and Marauder’s posts, and I’m playing devil’s advocate despite agreeing with the reasoning. Throughout grade school, children are taught history classes and given civics classes. These are basically mandatory as school is mandatory until 16 I believe, and you really don’t get a choice on what you take. They may be poorly taught or received, but everyone is given jnstruction to a certain standard. Same goes for health class and driving classes. Again these are basically mandatory and driving certainly is to get your license. There is no such mandatory class for firearms such as hunting rifles, shotguns, etc., and most cost money whereas in public school, the classes I mentioned are mostly or entirely free. I would argue that such a firearms class should be mandatory and could be taught in PE/civics obviously subject to exclusion as requested by the student. Otherwise it’s difficult to draw comparisons between driving, voting, partaking in vices, etc. because people grow up around these and have classes on them whereas the only exposure most people who don’t grow up with guns in the home get is from social media or news media, and generally speaking people fear what they don’t understand. Hell on that point, plenty of people that grew up around firearms take them for granted or don’t operate them with proper safety protocols.
 

Ooh-Rah

Semper-Fi
Verified Military
Joined
Sep 12, 2012
Messages
11,177
Coming to this thread a little late...… I could not find this article discussed... While it is from what I consider to be one of the most high falooting and snobbish magazines after Town and Country... I believe this bears serious thoughtful reading and discussion.

How School Shootings Spread

Thanks for posting. Bookmarked for future reading.
 

Marauder06

Intel Enabler
Verified SOF
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
11,208
Location
CONUS
To clarify, I’m firmly in these camps along with Ococka ‘s and Marauder’s posts, and I’m playing devil’s advocate despite agreeing with the reasoning. Throughout grade school, children are taught history classes and given civics classes. These are basically mandatory as school is mandatory until 16 I believe, and you really don’t get a choice on what you take. They may be poorly taught or received, but everyone is given jnstruction to a certain standard. Same goes for health class and driving classes. Again these are basically mandatory and driving certainly is to get your license. There is no such mandatory class for firearms such as hunting rifles, shotguns, etc., and most cost money whereas in public school, the classes I mentioned are mostly or entirely free. I would argue that such a firearms class should be mandatory and could be taught in PE/civics obviously subject to exclusion as requested by the student. Otherwise it’s difficult to draw comparisons between driving, voting, partaking in vices, etc. because people grow up around these and have classes on them whereas the only exposure most people who don’t grow up with guns in the home get is from social media or news media, and generally speaking people fear what they don’t understand. Hell on that point, plenty of people that grew up around firearms take them for granted or don’t operate them with proper safety protocols.

I'd be OK with mandatory training, even training tied to gun purchases, if it were 1) useful; 2) affordable; 3) easily available; 4) consistent across all US states and territories, and 5) ended with a universal CCW for handguns for those who wanted one.
 

Kakashi66223

Marine/Army ATC
Verified Military
Joined
Jul 18, 2017
Messages
100
Thank you @RetPara. That was an interesting read and find.

Deep down I am glad that there is a Summer Break for brick and mortar schools to huddle-up. What America needs is teachers that feel as if the students are their responsibility to keep alive at what ever means a parent(s)will use, parent-by-proxy. Home schooling is bound to get even more mainstream, I know it's not for everyone, and brick and mortar schools need to quit resisting staff-CCW if it could theoretically curtail school shootings.

What I really want to believe about school shootings:
1.The "few" talk and usually a certain group of kids "had" to know something was being planned or is about to happen.
2.Teachers can pick out the "creeps", know the "creeps" known accomplices, and could become more vigilant.
3. This stops happening because staff-CCWs.

Side note:
Distracted parenting and dodging responsibility is my soapbox sermon. I don't know how many parents this year I have witnessed unnaturally neglect their kids at the pool thanks to mobile devices. May not be my kids but I'm watching out for them as well. Swimming will kill more children than school shootings if I'm correct in unintentional drowning statistics this summer. And if you drive to the swimming area, then motor vehicle accidents claim more lives than swimming. Distracted "anything" is on par with drunken "anything," FWIW.
 

RetPara

SOF Support
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
698
Location
In your worst nightmare.....
I started substitute teaching a couple of years ago in several different districts. There is no specific subject (prefer History, Social Studies, Geography, or English - stay away from Math) but cover 5th Grade > including Special Needs and Alternative schools. I've only had to break up two fights and just one death threat. That was from an 8th Grader, known to have serious mental/emotional issues, who said he was going to have his father shoot me. My response was that 'Your father is not going to be happy to find out you wrote a check like that for him to cash. Beyond that he's gonna have to wait in line to do it; and it's a long line.'

So I think that I have a unique perspective on school shootings.

First, I don't believe it's a secret that Johnny Nutball is making threats. The question is how to discover them or discover key behavior indicators of imminent violence.

Not all teachers should be armed and some definitely don't want to be armed. Most teachers are not psychologically prepared to fight except as a last ditch defense. Most teachers do not have the ingrained sense to 'go to the sound of the guns'.

Anyone that will carry a firearm in a school should be getting monthly training - stress shoots, shoot don't shoot, and room clearing. Also drills to draw and fire with a lot of live fire.

Bear in mind that teachers have assigned responsibilities during school emergencies. In Michigan every school has a comprehensive plan for fire, tornados, and security threats, some plans have different levels. A teacher with a room of students cannot leave them alone in an emergency. Not all classes have a ParaPro or Teachers Aid.

Some schools have Community Assistant's, Behavior Specialists, and Counselors. In one High School it only takes a single phone call and a none cooperative student is teleported out of the room.

So initial defense has to be a School Resource Officer, not the normal LEO on a ROAD assignment. There is a need for armed school security who view the protection of the students as a primary responsibility. To have the legal protection they need, there has to be an affiliation with a local LE Agency. They must have the training mentioned above and it has to be repeated in a variety of scenarios. Airsoft at night in the specific schools would be good training.

As for sub teaching..... I love it. I don't do as much Special Needs now because you HAVE to know your kids. It can take several days before your presence is accepted as normal.

I like the Alternative Schools, whole different type of kids. Some are emancipated as young as 15 YO. They're supporting themselves and trying to finish school. Some are there by court order, parole, probation, ankle monitors. Court officers will drop by for unannounced drug screens, H&W chks, and the favorite 'Where is your ankle monitor?' These are the most interesting kids to talk with. If you get them talking they will open up.

I walk into a school with a set of life experiences unlike any teacher, sub, or adult the vast majority of them have ever met. It's fun to take a History class and take a little different tangent with it. Being able to talk about being in foreign countries with first person experiences helps.

This is an independent contracting gig through a company that provides subs to a variety of districts. So via the web I can pick and choose where, what, and when I teach. Makes a difference.
 

nobodythank you

Geek
SOF Support
Joined
Nov 7, 2006
Messages
727
Anyone that will carry a firearm in a school should be getting monthly training - stress shoots, shoot don't shoot, and room clearing. Also drills to draw and fire with a lot of live fire.
Not that I disagree with your suggestions, but even street cops and SROs don't get that much training. At least in FL, a good agency will keep yearly qualifications with some of the tasks you mentioned above (usually thrown in on range day). Excellent ones will have a separate day of instruction for those skills. IIRC, statute only requires a weapons qual once every two years. There was once an agency in the panhandle, their unifrom of the day was denim (no fecal matter here), and one of their officers showed up to the range with a rusted shut gun. It was the first time he had pulled it from the nylon holster since last qualifying with it two years previous in the rain.

Just providing some background. It would be nice for monthly instruction for the armed teachers, but like any training, it wouldn't be practical or realistic to the overall mission. Great discussion though.
 

Topkick

Verified Military
Joined
Apr 26, 2017
Messages
1,317
SSMP
Military Mentor
It would be nice for monthly instruction for the armed teachers, but like any training, it wouldn't be practical or realistic to the overall mission
I don't disagree that it's a challenge, but I think this could be accomplished by incentivizing teachers who participate in training on their own time. With all of the veteran owned tactical training groups out there, there are plenty of opportunities for teachers to seek out training.
I personally have worked with church security team members who receive incentives from their church and big discounts from the training group.
 
Top