So is both the M17 and M18 trash or what?
- Thread starter The Quartermaster
- Start date
Box
Verified SOF
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2018
- Messages
- 2,157
I believe Sig's response to that video would be - nuh uh
I'm biased because I dont like Sig pistols. The 220 was a nice gun, but for the money I'd have bought a 1911 or a Glock. I even had a CZ clone that was chambered in 45 - and also I liked that one better than the 220.
I put plenty of rounds through the Army M-11 (P228) and the trigger was garbage - not as bad as the 320, but not as good as a Glock. For that matter, given a choice between a 228 and the M9, the M9 would be my go to. When I did a contracting stint training folks on the 320 - I hated it. The gun feels top heavy to me - poorly balanced - and the triggers are garbage.
All just my opinion - but that's why I dont (and wont) have a Sig in my collection.
When I picture in my head, a company that has managed to sell the US Government an over engineered pistol of questionable design that has been demonstrating its poor reliability for almost ten years now - then toss into the mix that it was selected after the government seemed to have inexplicably just stopped testing and went - YEP, BEST GUN, BUY IT...
Then buy a belt fed machine gun and a service carbine that shoot a proprietary cartridge that has already been proven to weari out barrels at a MUCH higher rate that any of the other current or alternative round without a defensible degree of improvement that has ZERO compatibility across other NATO and partner forces logistics chains because 'muh Sig - one of the thoughts that pop into my brain is corporate "collusion" with DOD acquisitions people
corruption is too strong a word
but it is a word
I'm biased because I dont like Sig pistols. The 220 was a nice gun, but for the money I'd have bought a 1911 or a Glock. I even had a CZ clone that was chambered in 45 - and also I liked that one better than the 220.
I put plenty of rounds through the Army M-11 (P228) and the trigger was garbage - not as bad as the 320, but not as good as a Glock. For that matter, given a choice between a 228 and the M9, the M9 would be my go to. When I did a contracting stint training folks on the 320 - I hated it. The gun feels top heavy to me - poorly balanced - and the triggers are garbage.
All just my opinion - but that's why I dont (and wont) have a Sig in my collection.
When I picture in my head, a company that has managed to sell the US Government an over engineered pistol of questionable design that has been demonstrating its poor reliability for almost ten years now - then toss into the mix that it was selected after the government seemed to have inexplicably just stopped testing and went - YEP, BEST GUN, BUY IT...
Then buy a belt fed machine gun and a service carbine that shoot a proprietary cartridge that has already been proven to weari out barrels at a MUCH higher rate that any of the other current or alternative round without a defensible degree of improvement that has ZERO compatibility across other NATO and partner forces logistics chains because 'muh Sig - one of the thoughts that pop into my brain is corporate "collusion" with DOD acquisitions people
corruption is too strong a word
but it is a word
Last edited:
The Quartermaster
Verified Military
- Joined
- May 3, 2020
- Messages
- 1,118
It killed an Airman. The kid enlisted for whatever reasons and I feel sad that it was for nothing now, and no way, shape, or form should anyone be issued a firearm that may potentially kill them or one of us next to them. Zero confidence. Yeah, yeah, he had it pointed at him but that's IMO a leadership failure that needs to be blamed too because the kid probably didn't know right from wrong because no one taught him about muzzle awareness even inside a holster.
That command and Sig need to be put on blast for it.
That command and Sig need to be put on blast for it.
For anybody who doesn't have time for the full 40ish minute video, here's a consolidated one talking about it.
(I saw this video before the full one).
Tldw: with about 1mm of play in the trigger they were able to fuck with the slide enough to cause a discharge.
The Quartermaster
Verified Military
- Joined
- May 3, 2020
- Messages
- 1,118
I really wish they'd not do the cringe face for these videos, it makes them look rather unprofessional and honestly I know enough people who don't even watch because of it. Present your info with a straight face to be taken seriously or fuck off already for destroying the signal.
To be fair, that face in the thumbnail is because the weapon fired a round as soon as he put some pressure on the slide.
Box
Verified SOF
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2018
- Messages
- 2,157
Here's an idea for a commercial...
FADE IN:
...wide angle shot from a drone flying just above tree top level
...looking down at a vast range complex
...people everywhere; clearly there is some sort of competition
...the viewpoints swoops down, flying low over the cars in the parking lot
...looping over each of the shooting bays
...activity everywhere, gunshots getting louder and fading out again as the drone footage circles each section of the range
...as the birds eye view camera footage continues, there is a voiceover that sounds like pure velvet
...a voice so silky smooth that Morgan Freeman, James Earl Jones, and Alan Rickman would all be jealous
"THE AMERICAN DREAM STILL EXISTS"
A family owned and operated firearms manufacturer in the Midwest, we are proud of our 30-year history. We started out as the engineering team behind these handcrafted firearms.
We continue to design quality firearms the way we would want them to be.
In other words, if we wouldn't use them, we wouldn't sell them.
When you purchase our firearms, you are partnering with a company that carries deep-rooted pride in its heritage and hard work.
We build "the working man's gun" and we celebrate our commitment to manufacturing firearms that are tough and reliable.
Our firearms are 100% American made and we guarantee a lifetime replacement of our work.
This means that you not only get quality firearms at a competitive price - you are also supporting an American based company that proudly offers a lifetime warranty on all of our firearms.
...the birds eye video comes to the last shooting bay on this vast training complex as the drone swoops to eye level on a collision course with a devastatingly handsome, 58 year old retired Special Forces Soldier
...he slows his sprint to a dead stop at the edge of a barricade on the pistol range
...he fires his last three doubles taps into the steel targets arrayed before him.
...as he completes his stage of fire, the drone pulls up short, looking over his shoulder
...his mature grizzled features
...his lady-killer tussle of salt and pepper hair
...and the manliest beard ever to show up on a gun commercial
...all gleaming in the noon day sunlight
...the camera zooms in and locks down on his pistol as he is cleared off the firing line:
The "Yeet-Canon" from High Point...
...its safer than a Sig P-320
...and when you purchase a Hi-Point® firearm, you purchase the Hi-Point® promise...and you just can't put a price tag on that.
FADE IN:
...wide angle shot from a drone flying just above tree top level
...looking down at a vast range complex
...people everywhere; clearly there is some sort of competition
...the viewpoints swoops down, flying low over the cars in the parking lot
...looping over each of the shooting bays
...activity everywhere, gunshots getting louder and fading out again as the drone footage circles each section of the range
...as the birds eye view camera footage continues, there is a voiceover that sounds like pure velvet
...a voice so silky smooth that Morgan Freeman, James Earl Jones, and Alan Rickman would all be jealous
"THE AMERICAN DREAM STILL EXISTS"
A family owned and operated firearms manufacturer in the Midwest, we are proud of our 30-year history. We started out as the engineering team behind these handcrafted firearms.
We continue to design quality firearms the way we would want them to be.
In other words, if we wouldn't use them, we wouldn't sell them.
When you purchase our firearms, you are partnering with a company that carries deep-rooted pride in its heritage and hard work.
We build "the working man's gun" and we celebrate our commitment to manufacturing firearms that are tough and reliable.
Our firearms are 100% American made and we guarantee a lifetime replacement of our work.
This means that you not only get quality firearms at a competitive price - you are also supporting an American based company that proudly offers a lifetime warranty on all of our firearms.
...the birds eye video comes to the last shooting bay on this vast training complex as the drone swoops to eye level on a collision course with a devastatingly handsome, 58 year old retired Special Forces Soldier
...he slows his sprint to a dead stop at the edge of a barricade on the pistol range
...he fires his last three doubles taps into the steel targets arrayed before him.
...as he completes his stage of fire, the drone pulls up short, looking over his shoulder
...his mature grizzled features
...his lady-killer tussle of salt and pepper hair
...and the manliest beard ever to show up on a gun commercial
...all gleaming in the noon day sunlight
...the camera zooms in and locks down on his pistol as he is cleared off the firing line:
The "Yeet-Canon" from High Point...
...its safer than a Sig P-320
...and when you purchase a Hi-Point® firearm, you purchase the Hi-Point® promise...and you just can't put a price tag on that.
Last edited:
Devildoc
Verified Military
It's almost as if Barrett and SIG are trying to race to the bottom....
The Quartermaster
Verified Military
- Joined
- May 3, 2020
- Messages
- 1,118
Barrett quality being crap started when the Barretts sold the family business and left the company because apparently they loved money even more, then making sure the business with their legacy and family's name on, went to a good owner that past the vibe check.
Sig went downhill when they went after defense contracts and bad hiring practices of questionable engineers, and outsourcing parts production to overseas in questionable areas of the world. Like India for example.
Sig went downhill when they went after defense contracts and bad hiring practices of questionable engineers, and outsourcing parts production to overseas in questionable areas of the world. Like India for example.
Devildoc
Verified Military
SIG went downhill when they moved from Germany to New Hampshire and decided that instead of making a dozen guns really, really well to making 100 guns in all sorts of funky-ass colors with shoddy engineering.
I have two of the "hand grenade" P320s. Never had an issue with them, also haven't shot them in a long time as they aren't my favorite to shoot.
SIG has had recalls in the past and this isn't the first time the 320 has most likely been responsible for a fatality in this manner. Another person was killed with fragments of his holster found in his leg next to the severed artery, I believe the blame was put on the holster. Maybe someone trapped their finger in between the holster and the in the guard when returning the gun to the holster, maybe not, too many times this happens though.
The ranges/classes/comps/etc that are banning the 320 for now are smart. No need to create unnecessary risk. It would be nice if the goobers and sponsored shooters just keep quiet on this one until all the facts come out. But then again, when you don't get paid anything material to rep the brand you need to try to monetize on content.
SIG has had recalls in the past and this isn't the first time the 320 has most likely been responsible for a fatality in this manner. Another person was killed with fragments of his holster found in his leg next to the severed artery, I believe the blame was put on the holster. Maybe someone trapped their finger in between the holster and the in the guard when returning the gun to the holster, maybe not, too many times this happens though.
The ranges/classes/comps/etc that are banning the 320 for now are smart. No need to create unnecessary risk. It would be nice if the goobers and sponsored shooters just keep quiet on this one until all the facts come out. But then again, when you don't get paid anything material to rep the brand you need to try to monetize on content.
I hate to see Max Michel and Lena Miculek associated with the brand and what its become.
---
What was the company that produced high cap 1911 frames for competition shooters in the late 90's, early 2000's? Great guns and then they moved from Canada to North Carolina where their QA went to shit. They were stupid popular with IPSC shooters back then.
Almost every manufacturing company's downfall begins with poor QA and I include software in this as well.
---
What was the company that produced high cap 1911 frames for competition shooters in the late 90's, early 2000's? Great guns and then they moved from Canada to North Carolina where their QA went to shit. They were stupid popular with IPSC shooters back then.
Almost every manufacturing company's downfall begins with poor QA and I include software in this as well.
Devildoc
Verified Military
Para-Ordnance. "Para" was banging around in my head and Google saved the day.
Devildoc
Verified Military
Devildoc
Verified Military
There is a gun shop up here in Raleigh, Eagle 1. I have bought a few guns from there, mostly used as the prices were pretty fair. About 10, maybe 15 years ago, half the used guns were Para's, and they were cheap. Sometimes a company's reach exceeds its grasp; maybe they should have just stuck with frame kits.
Lena/Max/Daniel could switch to whatever platform they want and whatever company would be happy to have them given their success. If they had a feel or sight line they preferred, the company would modify whatever they are using to get close to it. Happens often when people switch teams/brands. The gun I shoot is essentially just a receiver and barrel that can handle the volume and the rest is all custom to me and my preferences.
The brand is the brand and shooters can switch away exercising the term clauses, will be interesting to see if they leave or not though.
Similar threads
