So is both the M17 and M18 trash or what?

[The Quartermaster]

This post on reddit explains a lot. For the 91F's and 18B's, prepare for some actual engineering math.

https://www.reddit.com/r/QualityTacticalGear/comments/1mc9x3t/p320_tolerance_math_for_nerds

 

[Devildoc]

This post on reddit explains a lot. For the 91F's and 18B's, prepare for some actual engineering math.

https://www.reddit.com/r/QualityTacticalGear/comments/1mc9x3t/p320_tolerance_math_for_nerds

First, that Reddit post is gold: no bias, no subjectivity, just math.

Second, he said the following, which is what I have been saying (differently) for years: "Glock’s “factory” world is one uniform geometry; SIG’s factory catalog is so broad it functions like an aftermarket buffet, so every P320 owner has to verify their own build and holster fit in an ecosystem managed but not manufactured by SIG directly."

I had a SIG 1911, which, after a couple trips back to SIG to have an issue fixed, was a remarkably great gun. But the dimensions were just different enough from a 'normal' 1911 that it required a different holster that only a couple manufacturers made, of course.

 

[The Quartermaster]

That particular reddit is a rarity, they are heavy handed with the idiots you're talking about. Which is why they weren't there commenting to enflame it.

Guntubers and folks wanting to discuss this or any issue, all need to be professional and leave the cringe, biasedness, jokes that are more to taunt and bully than to actually be funny, the edginess, and smug faces (Looking directly at YOU Ben Stoeger) in the garbage where that crap really belongs.

This could have been addressed a long time ago if the 2A community would stop acting like children that were never taught manners and how to be a grown adult being professional, objective, and respectful. I can almost guarantee this is why Sig went "lalalalalalala...." because of douchebags with mouths that needed their teeth kicked in.

 

[Devildoc]

The rest of the military doesn't have any interest in getting rid of the SIG:

Army, Marine Corps, Navy have no plan to stop using M18, M17 pistols

 

[Kraut783]

The rest of the military doesn't have any interest in getting rid of the SIG:

Army, Marine Corps, Navy have no plan to stop using M18, M17 pistols

Hope this doesn't blow up in the services faces.....I hope they are doing their own evaluations...

 

[Kraut783]

Just out of curiosity...is the G19 still being used by ODA's? Or is it a mix bag?

 

[Devildoc]

Just out of curiosity...is the G19 still being used by ODA's? Or is it a mix bag?

Yes, the G19. I believe it is the SOCOM contracted pistol.

 

[AWP]

Yes, the G19. I believe it is the SOCOM contracted pistol.

Cynically I think that's the primary reason for selecting the 320.

 

[Box]

I'm certain that Sig Sauer is getting maximum value out of their Senior Military Advisor right now...

...after all, that guy HAD to be doing a good job to help them sell us a couple of long guns that fire Sig proprietary cartridges that cannot be used for training

I feel like most of this is just a great big misunderstanding.

 

[Devildoc]

"Can I interest you in something in a nice 7.62?"

"Boring, darling. Been there done that."

"Perhaps a nice 6.5 Grendel?"

"Hmmm. Thank you, no. But getting closer."

<Opens special vault> "Now here is a very nice, rare, and proprietary .277 Fury. Very hard to find, very expensive, and oh, you really can't train with it."

"Sold!!"

 

[Blizzard]

Whoever that dude is, he must be able to sell snowballs to eskimos.

 

[Box]

Whoever that dude is, he must be able to sell snowballs to eskimos.

...retired 3-Star General, John Deedrick

...retired 4-Star General, Scott Miller


Selling ketchup popsicles to Eskimos wearing white gloves is what the Military Industrial Complex is best at

 

[AWP]

If Blaber and Haney can be PNG'ed over a TV show and books, shouldn't the unit do the same to a guy who helped sell Sig's defective shit to the DoD, especially when his old unit adopted 1911's and Glocks, not Sig's?

 

[Box]

That's just nonsense - since when do rules apply to a GO ?

C'mon man,
...by the, you know; you know, the thing

 

[Marauder06]

Ouch.

 

[AWP]

The IDPA has banned the P320 from IDPA matches:
International Defensive Pistol Association

(from a pop up when you first enter the site)

The International Defensive Pistol Association, Inc. (IDPA), in response to numerous reports and videos, is immediately prohibiting the use of the SIG Sauer P320 in all of it’s variants from any competition or event under the name of IDPA. All other SIG Sauer models may be used in the division appropriate for their configuration.
The goal of IDPA is safety first for our members, competitors, staff and spectators and all others associated with any IDPA event. While we have no direct knowledge of the potential technical defect of the weapon system, the volume of ranges, organizations and military units declaring a problem has made it too visible to deny. We will re-evaluate this decision in the future if new credible information emerges.
We are aware that this decision will affect a limited number of competitors at the National Championship. Please understand that safety for all in the sport is paramount. For those affected, please contact he**@id**.com . Division changes for those affected will be allowed until August 8.
“IDPA is committed to maintaining a fair, competitive, and inclusive environment for all shooters,” said IDPA President Joyce Wilson. “Banning a particular firearm is the last thing we ever want to do as an organization, but the safety of our members and potential spectators has to come first.”

 

[Devildoc]

The IDPA has banned the P320 from IDPA matches:
International Defensive Pistol Association

(from a pop up when you first enter the site)

That'll eliminate half the field, which makes me much more competitive....

 

[DA SWO]

Army triples down in 3,2,.....

 

[AWP]

That'll eliminate half the field, which makes me much more competitive....

I went on the local IDPA chapter's Facebook page. Oh. My. God. The people on there rushing to defend SIG, not even acknowledging there could be even a hint of truth to safety problems. "Grown" ass men getting pissy with the match director, "If i can't shoot there I'm not setting up the range. I don't even know if I'll ever shoot IDPA again." The response is basically: "Uh, okay. We'll still be here and you won't." Individuals calling out SIG defenders, SIG defenders grumbling about their 2A rights...hilarious. Video of DJ Shipley ranting about how good the SIG's are and all of the attacks are bullshit...

Some local USPSA clubs are banning the P320 even though USPSA itself hasn't initiated a ban.

Tim Kennedy has got to love the sudden anti-SIG hate. Just like that, gun bros and vet bros have something new to focus on.

I'm entertained.

 

[Totentanz]

I went on the local IDPA chapter's Facebook page. Oh. My. God. The people on there rushing to defend SIG, not even acknowledging there could be even a hint of truth to safety problems. "Grown" ass men getting pissy with the match director, "If i can't shoot there I'm not setting up the range. I don't even know if I'll ever shoot IDPA again." The response is basically: "Uh, okay. We'll still be here and you won't." Individuals calling out SIG defenders, SIG defenders grumbling about their 2A rights...hilarious. Video of DJ Shipley ranting about how good the SIG's are and all of the attacks are bullshit...

Some local USPSA clubs are banning the P320 even though USPSA itself hasn't initiated a ban.

Tim Kennedy has got to love the sudden anti-SIG hate. Just like that, gun bros and vet bros have something new to focus on.

I'm entertained.

I can absolutely see that - their engineering aside, Sig has invested HEAVILY into their "brand" over the last decade or so, to the point where it resembles a cult of personality. It's interesting to watch.