I don't think you have to worry about involuntarily being re-classed in Regiment if you are in good standing, otherwise why would they have the RLP? Also, they are hurting on manpower, so that just doesn't make sense to me.
SOF to Intel
- Thread starter goon175
- Start date
I don't think you have to worry about involuntarily being re-classed in Regiment if you are in good standing, otherwise why would they have the RLP? Also, they are hurting on manpower, so that just doesn't make sense to me.
Brill
SOF Support
Explain because I'm intrigued that the Army would direct you to another MOS that has strict requirements. Are you a native speaker?
Also keep in mind that the language is only half of the MOS (At GAFB, we dropped guys who were very good linguists but couldn't make the transition to CRYPTOLOGIC linguist. 35P and 35N are ALMOST interchangeable: the best Papas are soldiers who have had the November classes at the Fort. I was lucky way back when: I SUCKED at DLI and had to go to mando study hall and barely met the standards of 2/2. I got to GAFB and the shit just clicked! I found I could actually visualize the scenarios and the stuff just made sense to me. Left there near the top of my class. Seems like there are two camps to MI linguists: some some the language and culture whereas others love the cryptologic work.
Here's the full URL: https://mispace.army.mil
That link will take you to the Army Professional Forums homepage and just log in using your CAC or AKO username & pword. After you log in you'll be taken to the MIspace homepage. On the left column, look for SOF.
Best of luck!
IMHO the school at Goodbuddy is a waste of time in regards to SOT-A duty. It was simply another check in the box that had to be completed before moving onto a team and actually learning what the job is about. I hear good things about the SOT-A school that has started up. Let's just hope that it grows and moves into a final screening process for those soldiers wishing to come over.
Just to clarify, I have heard good things about the 35N course. It was the 35P school I was speaking of.
SOT-A school? Haven't heard of that, any info in the open about this?
Brill
SOF Support
I'm split over the effectiveness of GAFB: for a SOT-A (a duty position, work role, ect, which needs an SQI) it's not applicable but for a strategic 35P (a MOS), it's the meat and potatoes. Having said that, without the GAFB background, a SOT-A is really just a LRS team...but with a bunch of batteries and other crap.
I also think there's something to be said for understanding the role all the other players are and being able to understand how to navigate through the intel community to get the info you or the ODA needs to be effective or keep 'em safe. Plus GAFB begins the transformation of being just a 09L into a 35P, in my opinion. I think (hope) we see a shift back to the being independent SOT-As as we slowly start to kick the damn terps out of our trucks.
I know youre leaning towards the PaPa but I just wanted to mention that a LOT of good assignments for 35L are for SSG (since 35L is entry level AT E-5). Thats a pretty good place to be for a 35L. You know what youre doing by then, get good work and dont have to supervise a bunch of other 35L/M or wind up working as a 1SG. Honestly, youre in a position that a good bit of adventure minded 35L would like to be in but cant. You have EXPERIENCE at a special operations unit, are already airborne qualified. Hell... once you get towards the end of your time at Huachuca the Ranger recruiter will come a knocking (as will others). What used to happen is they'd show up and make the speech, take note to all the guys with stars in their eyes and chat them up. ANYONE who graduated that wanted a shot got one. ABN first then at that time they were sent to RIP. FEW were in the shape necessary to pass but they were definitely looking. Back then they were giving guys from the schoolhouse every opportunity to pass (they needed 97B in the Regiment) so they werent in any rush to rock guys out of the course. In all likelihood you will never be at the mercy of the Branch Manager like others @ the schoolhouse will be. Volunteer and take care of business and that wont even come into play cause the recruiter handles the whole ball of wax. I know guys that didnt even roll with any of the recruiter visits and just had guaranteed Airborne in their contracts and they wound up at GRP. At the time the "worst" (as some said) that could happen to a 97B grad that went ABN was to spend the next couple of years at the 82nd. Theres still a shortage of 35M/L. Airborne qualified with SOF experience even more so. You should see the tours that SOCOM has available for Reservists that meet those requirements.
Id say whatever you decide to do in MI... SOF opportunities will certainly be there. Once you get your adjudicated TS clearance (youll get interim in order to hit the schoolhouse) you will be good to go.
Id say whatever you decide to do in MI... SOF opportunities will certainly be there. Once you get your adjudicated TS clearance (youll get interim in order to hit the schoolhouse) you will be good to go.
roadtrippin
Unverified
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2011
- Messages
- 5
goon175, I agree with you on that. What I meant by that quote is if things went down hill for me on my SF pipeline and ultimately end up in the big Army.
lindy, yes, I am a native speaker. Apparently, the Army already involuntarily re-classed some guys. Also, thanks for the advice. I'm interested in 35P for the cryptologic part of it rather than the linguist aspect of it.
BravoOne, thanks for that info. The 35Ms I've talked to kept talking about becoming 35Ls. However, it'll be a while for me to become a E-6. And that's assuring that there will be recruiters visiting during AIT. Hopefully, they'll be able to give more info about that job details then.
lindy, yes, I am a native speaker. Apparently, the Army already involuntarily re-classed some guys. Also, thanks for the advice. I'm interested in 35P for the cryptologic part of it rather than the linguist aspect of it.
BravoOne, thanks for that info. The 35Ms I've talked to kept talking about becoming 35Ls. However, it'll be a while for me to become a E-6. And that's assuring that there will be recruiters visiting during AIT. Hopefully, they'll be able to give more info about that job details then.
Hey brother, I would really encourage you to continue researching stuff, I don't think you are completely informed on some things that you are basing career decisions on. My personal advice to you would be to finish out your first enlistment as a Ranger, whatever you re-class to after that whether it be SF, MI, etc. will greatly benefit from your experiences as opposed to switching over with what I assume is only one or two deployments under your belt in a SL1 position. Feel free to hit me up in a PM if you have any questions about this, I don't want to completely derail this thread.
goon, if I don't get picked up for a commissioning program I'm applying for, I plan on going to Ranger School right away. The ONLY reason is to have some measure of credibility when I have to work with guys I don't know... which is often.
Having to prove yourself over and over again never ends for a support guy. Hell, it never ends for a tabbed guy to some extent. A lot of guys don't understand the concept of "I like my job and don't want to go SF" and the other opportunities available to say, 35M/35L/35P, that are not necessarily available to SF dudes.
So, if you go to Group as an MI guy having previously been a tabbed Regiment guy, it will definitely help you so long as you don't prove to be incompetent in whatever support you are providing. Having the trust of the guys you're working with is often the difference between actually being able to make a difference, or just being another body. I'm fortunate that everyone I work with have good reps with proven performance. That hasn't always been the case, in other units, and everyone suffers when that happens. That, and it's harder to get rid of someone in Group than it is in big army.
Having to prove yourself over and over again never ends for a support guy. Hell, it never ends for a tabbed guy to some extent. A lot of guys don't understand the concept of "I like my job and don't want to go SF" and the other opportunities available to say, 35M/35L/35P, that are not necessarily available to SF dudes.
So, if you go to Group as an MI guy having previously been a tabbed Regiment guy, it will definitely help you so long as you don't prove to be incompetent in whatever support you are providing. Having the trust of the guys you're working with is often the difference between actually being able to make a difference, or just being another body. I'm fortunate that everyone I work with have good reps with proven performance. That hasn't always been the case, in other units, and everyone suffers when that happens. That, and it's harder to get rid of someone in Group than it is in big army.
Brill
SOF Support
Sleeve tattoos also help a new guy fit in. 
Sleeve tattoos also help a new guy fit in.
A bike also.
RangerRowe
SOF Support
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2012
- Messages
- 21
Please forgive the revival of this thread but I have a few considerations, especially for those that like goon 1/75 and roadtrippin that have SOF experience.
1. I have no military experience outside of Special Operations except for the 2 years I spent in TRADOC beginning my military career. I am absolutely clueless as to what the job requirements for a 35L/35M/35N/or 35P are in the conventional Army. What I can tell you is that the difference between 35L/35M/35N/and 35P are vast in the SOF community, especially SF.
A 35N can be used in 2 capacities, as an analyst on a SOT-B supporting a SOT-A or ODA at an AOB or SOTF, or as a member of a SOT-A (and being a member of a SOT-A was only a recent development). A 35P can only be used, by MTOE, as a member of SOT-A or ACT-T, and to be on the ACT-T you have to be an experienced SOT-A that's at least an E6(P). A 35L or 35M is used primarily as base and building security and as the person who vets your locals. I have seen 35L's and 35M's go outside the wire to do TQ from time to time but that is not often and it was only because the 18F and the 180A already had too much on their plate that day. If a 35N is on the SOT-A then he will go out with them just like every other member of the team. If he's at the SOTF or the AOB as an analyst then it's "enjoy the Green Beans and ogle the Air Force girls" because he isn't going anywhere near Wild West country. Since 35P's are only on a SOT-A they will always be gone and they will always be outside the wire. I have been gone 9 months out of this year and only 5 of those months were deployed, the rest was TDY. You will be TDY all the time.
I only mention this because I see some of you are making your decisions based on your significant others concerns and if her concern is keeping you out of harm's way then being a 35P at Group IS NOT THE WAY TO GO. Last I checked there have been 15 SIGINTers killed in OEF/OIF and only 1 of those was conventional Army. The rest were SOF SI elements (NSW TAC-EW, MARSOC, and SOT-A). That may not seem like a lot but when you consider that there are only 12 of us in an entire BN, and even smaller numbers in NSW and MARSOC, then it becomes a pretty considerable amount.
2. Promotions and retention in the various fields are also vastly different. 35P is one of the few MOS's that still has a HUGE reenlistment bonus across all ranks, all units and almost all languages. The same cannot be said for 35L or 35M. A few years ago there was a huge push for 35l and 35M and a considerable number of soldiers from other MOS's reclassed, flooding it with E6s and E7s. Making rank as a 35L or 35M is hard, real hard and unless you are lucky enough to get into USASOC you are not getting a reenlistment bonus.
http://www.armyreenlistment.com/Messages/MILPER/SRB_TIERED_12_294_20120917.pdf3. Because SOT-A's work alongside their ODA brethren so often they are treated differently. As a SOT-A you are still considered support but you are not "one of those shitbag Support Guys". You go to cool guy schools, get cool guy gear and do cool guy missions but I tell you this with the utmost sincerity, pretend to be an SF guy and you are fucked. Put an SF sticker on your car and you are fucked. Try to be something that you aren't and you are fucked.
4. When you are at GAFB spend your time working out and staying out of trouble. You will learn nothing of value there that will transfer to a career in SOF. The school is designed for what 35P's do at the RSOC's. GAFB does not care about you going to a SOT-A. There are so few of us that it's not relevant or worth the Army's time to teach anything on the SOF side of the house. It's for this reason that we have been screaming for our own schoolhouse, our own A&S and our own SQI. Any 35P with orders to a Group is essentially wasting 5-6 months of training time because the Army doesn't want to make the right decision.
5. Getting to Group as a 35P is all about knowledge and relationships and those of you that are on here are already half way there by being on this site. Right now the Branch Manager is an ex SOT-A from 10th SFG. Two of the instructors at GAFB are ex SOT-As (one from 3rd and one from 5th). There are several ex SOT-A's at DLI right now. You have 3 SOT-As on this thread. THEY ARE ALWAYS LOOKING FOR DUDES TO RECRUIT. Shit I'm pretty much recruiting tight now. Doing the right thing and reaching out to the right people goes a long way. I can't even remember how many times I have been called asking if I have heard of so-and-so and if I would be willing to vouch for them.
I have yammered on too much.
1. I have no military experience outside of Special Operations except for the 2 years I spent in TRADOC beginning my military career. I am absolutely clueless as to what the job requirements for a 35L/35M/35N/or 35P are in the conventional Army. What I can tell you is that the difference between 35L/35M/35N/and 35P are vast in the SOF community, especially SF.
A 35N can be used in 2 capacities, as an analyst on a SOT-B supporting a SOT-A or ODA at an AOB or SOTF, or as a member of a SOT-A (and being a member of a SOT-A was only a recent development). A 35P can only be used, by MTOE, as a member of SOT-A or ACT-T, and to be on the ACT-T you have to be an experienced SOT-A that's at least an E6(P). A 35L or 35M is used primarily as base and building security and as the person who vets your locals. I have seen 35L's and 35M's go outside the wire to do TQ from time to time but that is not often and it was only because the 18F and the 180A already had too much on their plate that day. If a 35N is on the SOT-A then he will go out with them just like every other member of the team. If he's at the SOTF or the AOB as an analyst then it's "enjoy the Green Beans and ogle the Air Force girls" because he isn't going anywhere near Wild West country. Since 35P's are only on a SOT-A they will always be gone and they will always be outside the wire. I have been gone 9 months out of this year and only 5 of those months were deployed, the rest was TDY. You will be TDY all the time.
I only mention this because I see some of you are making your decisions based on your significant others concerns and if her concern is keeping you out of harm's way then being a 35P at Group IS NOT THE WAY TO GO. Last I checked there have been 15 SIGINTers killed in OEF/OIF and only 1 of those was conventional Army. The rest were SOF SI elements (NSW TAC-EW, MARSOC, and SOT-A). That may not seem like a lot but when you consider that there are only 12 of us in an entire BN, and even smaller numbers in NSW and MARSOC, then it becomes a pretty considerable amount.
2. Promotions and retention in the various fields are also vastly different. 35P is one of the few MOS's that still has a HUGE reenlistment bonus across all ranks, all units and almost all languages. The same cannot be said for 35L or 35M. A few years ago there was a huge push for 35l and 35M and a considerable number of soldiers from other MOS's reclassed, flooding it with E6s and E7s. Making rank as a 35L or 35M is hard, real hard and unless you are lucky enough to get into USASOC you are not getting a reenlistment bonus.
http://www.armyreenlistment.com/Messages/MILPER/SRB_TIERED_12_294_20120917.pdf3. Because SOT-A's work alongside their ODA brethren so often they are treated differently. As a SOT-A you are still considered support but you are not "one of those shitbag Support Guys". You go to cool guy schools, get cool guy gear and do cool guy missions but I tell you this with the utmost sincerity, pretend to be an SF guy and you are fucked. Put an SF sticker on your car and you are fucked. Try to be something that you aren't and you are fucked.
4. When you are at GAFB spend your time working out and staying out of trouble. You will learn nothing of value there that will transfer to a career in SOF. The school is designed for what 35P's do at the RSOC's. GAFB does not care about you going to a SOT-A. There are so few of us that it's not relevant or worth the Army's time to teach anything on the SOF side of the house. It's for this reason that we have been screaming for our own schoolhouse, our own A&S and our own SQI. Any 35P with orders to a Group is essentially wasting 5-6 months of training time because the Army doesn't want to make the right decision.
5. Getting to Group as a 35P is all about knowledge and relationships and those of you that are on here are already half way there by being on this site. Right now the Branch Manager is an ex SOT-A from 10th SFG. Two of the instructors at GAFB are ex SOT-As (one from 3rd and one from 5th). There are several ex SOT-A's at DLI right now. You have 3 SOT-As on this thread. THEY ARE ALWAYS LOOKING FOR DUDES TO RECRUIT. Shit I'm pretty much recruiting tight now. Doing the right thing and reaching out to the right people goes a long way. I can't even remember how many times I have been called asking if I have heard of so-and-so and if I would be willing to vouch for them.
I have yammered on too much.
Brill
SOF Support
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