Solitary Confinement as punishment

[Ooh-Rah]

So I'm a big "eye-for-an-eye" guy, but after reading this very well written (in my opinion) article, I am certainly willing to take a new look at how Solitary is used as a punishment.

Prisoners are punished with long periods of isolation, often for minor offenses, that can cause lasting mental health problems. Other states are moving to limit the practice.

Excessive solitary confinement scars Minnesota prison inmates

 

[TLDR20]

My question with things like this is as follows: are we punishing or rehabilitating?These are different things, punishment and correction. Any child can tell you the difference. For some reason I don't think that the DOC has realized the difference.

 

[AWP]

My question with things like this is as follows: are we punishing or rehabilitating?These are different things, punishment and correction. Any child can tell you the difference. For some reason I don't think that the DOC has realized the difference.

I have serious doubts about how much correction/ rehabilitation can be done or is done in prison, but long-term solitary for the sake of punishment is stupid.

 

[SpitfireV]

If someone is "deserving" of such a long punishment then you'd think they'd committed a serious offence which should be tried in court.

 

[Red Flag 1]

P

 

[Etype]

Lessons learned from parenting-

Timeout (solitary confinement) builds resentment and anger. The kids don't sit there, "thinking about what they have done."

A quick spanking, then talking to about what happened and what is expected in the future usually yields positive results- timely punishment then rehabilitation.

Not exactly the same, but I think parallels can be drawn.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Lessons learned from parenting-

Timeout (solitary confinement) builds resentment and anger. The kids don't sit there, "thinking about what they have done."

A quick spanking, then talking to about what happened and what is expected in the future usually yields positive results- timely punishment then rehabilitation.

Not exactly the same, but I think parallels can be drawn.

The parenting style you describe is the opposite of what my wife and I chose to do as parents. We decided to be a non-spanking family and follow the "naughty spot" rule of one minute for each year of age; then we would talk about what happened and expectations in the future. We had (have) twins, so with two it also gave us a chance to gain control of the house for a few minutes.

The boys are nearly 14 now and are often described by family and friends as two of the most well behaved teenagers they have ever encountered. Obviously being teens they are far from perfect, but it shows that both @Etype 's style (which is how my wife and I were raised) and our style of non-spanking can both work and be effective if used in a measured way. I think that it is the point the article is trying to make, "solitary" can be a deterrent if used effectively, but giving a guard the power to add time because he was called "a son-of-a-bitch", is not my definition of effective control.

 

[Marine0311]

Yes I am for it. Lock them up away so they do no harm to COs or society.

 

[TLDR20]

Yes I am for it. Lock them up away so they do no harm to COs or society.

Man, you have no idea what these people may be locked up for in the first place. A generalized statement like the above is why shit never changes. You should not lock people away forever for most offenses. When they get out, which they will, they shouldn't be psychologically fucked from their imprisonment.

 

[Marine0311]

Man, you have no idea what these people may be locked up for in the first place. A generalized statement like the above is why shit never changes. You should not lock people away forever for most offenses. When they get out, which they will, they shouldn't be psychologically fucked from their imprisonment.

Hate all you want.

I have an idea based upon friends who are Corrections Officers and deal with them for 8 to 12 hours a day 5 to 7 days a week. The level of violence they display towards staff, other imamates and CO's is something I have considered. Perhaps the prisoners should not break the rules/polices of the prison in the first place?


I don't want my best bro/friend *Rich* to be stabbed or assaulted because of the violent behavior they display.

 

[TLDR20]

Hate all you want.

I have an idea based upon friends who are Corrections Officers and deal with them for 8 to 12 hours a day 5 to 7 days a week. The level of violence they display towards staff, other imamates and CO's is something I consider. Perhaps the prisoners should not break the rules/polices of the prison in the first place.


I don't want my friend *Rich* to be stabbed or assaulted because of the violent behavior they display.

They...? What percentage? If they were only there for violent offenses I may be more ok with it, but they are not, that is why it is an issue.

Calling a guard an asshole is not reason to be put in isolation. Putting someone in isolation for years? Give me a break. Do they expect the inmates to come out better, and safer? Punishments like these cause psychosis, and lead to more violence, it doesn't take a Ph.D in psych to understand that. Humans are social creatures, even if that social system is negative, at least they have interaction with other human beings.

Thinking about how easy it is to be arrested for something minor, then mouthing off, which we all do occasionally, and turning a non violent inmate into a violent one. It is pretty easy to see the flaws of such a system.

 

[Marine0311]

They...? What percentage? If they were only there for violent offenses I may be more ok with it, but they are not, that is why it is an issue.

Calling a guard an asshole is not reason to be put in isolation. Putting someone in isolation for years? Give me a break. Do they expect the inmates to come out better, and safer? Punishments like these cause psychosis, and lead to more violence, it doesn't take a Ph.D in psych to understand that. Humans are social creatures, even if that social system is negative, at least they have interaction with other human beings.

Thinking about how easy it is to be arrested for something minor, then mouthing off, which we all do occasionally, and turning a non violent inmate into a violent one. It is pretty easy to see the flaws of such a system.

I will have to read the article again a second time as I have read it already. It seems some are and some are not.

How easy it is to be arrested for something minor? I don't understand?



The article also states that when someone is put in seg they continue to act out and further prolong their stay. Perhaps they should have behaved in the first place and once in seg behaved instead of racking up more infractions which will further keep them in seg.

Neither of us are COs in prison. When I go out with my bro(over beers or whatever) and hear the stories of the shit he has to deal with from minor to major infractions I am all for it. I want him to come home in once piece and if seg is the way to go then so be it. Could that system be tweaked? Sure... but it's a tool that is needed to be used to keep order and discipline. From what I gather the imamates he has to watch are fearful of solitary confinement and will for the most part stay within the rules. Others however will act out not matter what and the COs have no other choice but to lock them away because the alternative is to have that particular prisoner continue to act out further and further until it gets to the level of assaulting someone (staff, etc). Maintaining order is paramount in a prison.

Again as I stated my information, thoughts and opinions are based upon stories my friends who are COs tell me.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

It's one thing to want to rehab a dude who stole some shit, or got busted with drugs, etc. It's another thing to want to do that for a murderer, rapist, child abuser, etc.

I think we need to kill off a shit load more people than we do via the death penalty. And I don't give two fucks if the assholes sit in solitary confinement until they are executed. Some people are simply incapable of ever being trusted in society or general population for that matter. And those peoples mental health, I do not give a damn for. They otta have those fuckers out on a chain gang, cleaning streets and doing productive shit for the communities they violated, and the shit heads who cannot be trusted with that, should be stuck in a fucking sweat box, and given no more than bread and water.

It's prison, not Disney Land.

 

[TLDR20]

It's one thing to want to rehab a dude who stole some shit, or got busted with drugs, etc. It's another thing to want to do that for a murderer, rapist, child abuser, etc.

I think we need to kill off a shit load more people than we do via the death penalty. And I don't give two fucks if the assholes sit in solitary confinement until they are executed. Some people are simply incapable of ever being trusted in society or general population for that matter. And those peoples mental health, I do not give a damn for. They otta have those fuckers out on a chain gang, cleaning streets and doing productive shit for the communities they violated, and the shit heads who cannot be trusted with that, should be stuck in a fucking sweat box, and given no more than bread and water.

It's prison, not Disney Land.

I think that in countries where rehabilitation is centric to imprisonment, they have less repeat criminal offenders.

It is not hard to see that in our system, people become more criminalized in the system than if they hadn't entered into it. Obviously I am not talking about the super violent offenders, sexually based crimes, stuff like that...

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I think that in countries where rehabilitation is centric to imprisonment, they have less repeat criminal offenders.

It is not hard to see that in our system, people. Crime more criminalizes in the system than if they hadn't entered into it. Obviously I am not talking about the super violent offenders, sexually based crimes, stuff like that...

Death penalty tends to help with the repeat offender issues.

But yes I hear what you're saying, and I would agree that people who commit minor offenses should get some form of rehab. The other shit heads, not so much.

 

[Red Flag 1]

[Q

 

[0699]

By all accounts, Red Onion will crush a man's soul. Horrible that it is needed.

Red Onion State Prison - Wikipedia

Having said that, what are the alternatives to handling violent offenders that already have extremely long or life sentences? By all accounts, once criminals reach that point they have little to no fear of prison rules or corrections personnel. From Thomas Silverstein's Wikipedia page...

"When an inmate kills a guard, he must be punished," a Bureau of Prisons official told author Pete Earley. "We can’t execute Silverstein, so we have no choice but to make his life a living hell. Otherwise other inmates will kill guards too. There has to be some supreme punishment. Every convict knows what Silverstein is going through. We want them to realize that if they cross the same line that he did, they will pay a heavy price."

Thomas Silverstein - Wikipedia

 

[TheKicker]

Just curious, what are ya'lls opinion on using solitary confinement for those inmates who pose a serious threat to those around them? i.e. maybe an inmate who has killed or assaulted other prisoners multiple times, and is a risk to other's (not just the staff) safety? And better yet, if you don't believe that it should be used, what is another option or treatment you would like to see implemented?

 

[AWP]

Our prison/ justice system is fucked. Prisons for profit? Seriously? How many prisoners are sent to prison for minor offenses or, and I'm not a bleeding heart by a long shot, the color of their skin or whatever? Prisons are post-grad facilities for criminals, but how many guys are there who are legitimately innocent or punished far beyond their crimes?

If you attack a guard or a fellow prisoner I don't care what landed you there because at that point any presumption of innocence or excessive sentencing is gone. At that point if your mind is broken, so what? It was already broken for you to initiate violent acts.

Sure, this post reads like a contradiction, but nothing in life is black or white. I love binary problems and solutions, but can anyone legitimately state that our prison/ justice system is a 1 or a 0?

I think we can rehab "lightweight" offenders, but career or violent offenders are beyond saving. If they are going to plant those seeds they can't complain about the harvest.

 

[policemedic]

My question with things like this is as follows: are we punishing or rehabilitating?These are different things, punishment and correction. Any child can tell you the difference. For some reason I don't think that the DOC has realized the difference.

The question is, can people be corrected/rehabilitated on a large scale? Perhaps individuals caught very early in the criminal cycle can be--particularly those involved in non-violent crimes--but for most others I'm doubtful.

That said, we have to either accept crazy high recidivism rates and be prepared to warehouse increasingly large numbers of career offenders or approach the problem differently.