Solitary Confinement as punishment

[Red Flag 1]

[Q

 

[Etype]

Calling a guard an asshole is not reason to be put in isolation.

If that really does happen, which I'm sure it does occasionally, that's a pretty big ego issue on the guard's fault.

We've all dealt with authority figures (police, teachers, DMV ladies, etc.) who had authority complexes compounded by ego. When the other person in the equation (the prisoner) also has interpersonal relationship issues, it makes for a bad situation.

 

[SpongeBob*24]

I think the biggest injustice we are doing to our society is not punishing people hard enough. A life of crime wouldn't be a life if you were getting no sleep, no food, no time to work out and no education in prison. If it was absolutely miserable, it would make people thank extra hard before doing whatever crime they are about to commit. Remember that one time you heard your Squad Leader say "lets rob the PX, Ft Leavenworth is nice this time of year........?" NO! I've never been, but all I ever heard about Leavenworth was breaking big rocks into small rocks. That doesn't sound sexxxy!


Want to make $60,000 a year...go to prison....:wall:

 

[RustyShackleford]

Take a few criminal justice classes and you will see that the CJ system in the US does not follow what is taught in CJ classes. This should be painfully clear to those employed in any type of LE capacity. Punishment should be swift and appropriate, followed by some sort of rehabilitation, in order to reintegrate the individual back into society. Remove politics and the business aspect (not just for profit prisons, it goes way beyond that) from corrections and you will have a good start.

 

[Lefty375]

I think the biggest injustice we are doing to our society is not punishing people hard enough. A life of crime wouldn't be a life if you were getting no sleep, no food, no time to work out and no education in prison. If it was absolutely miserable, it would make people thank extra hard before doing whatever crime they are about to commit. Remember that one time you heard your Squad Leader say "lets rob the PX, Ft Leavenworth is nice this time of year........?" NO! I've never been, but all I ever heard about Leavenworth was breaking big rocks into small rocks. That doesn't sound sexxxy!


Want to make $60,000 a year...go to prison....:wall:

A life of crime might bring home more money than a minimum wage job. Which means more food. This doesn't apply to all criminals, and obviously, we can think of millions of different scenarios to turn X agent away from crime. My point in this is. However, I do think crime is worth under certain circumstances.

This is different than a SSG saying "let's rob the PX" using some basic math. How much money does a robbery, on average, yield? How likely is it we will get caught? How much do we need the extra 10k we will receive from a low-risk robbery like a convenience store? You make more as a military member with benefits and guaranteed pay as long as you perform at the level of mediocre human being.

The low-income family in the mountains who are on their last nickel? I wager they stand a lot more to gain from crime, thus, telling them "don't steal" isn't effective.

I don't think people are dumb. Corporate criminals are educated individuals who know crime is wrong. To think there is some great injustice by not throwing, even more people into jail as a message just seems to miss the mark for me. We have a lot of people locked away last time I checked. Doesn't appear to work that great.

 

[SpongeBob*24]

@Lefty375 I don't want more people in Prison, I want less. To do so Prison has to suck WAY more.

Make it SO BADD that someone will turn to a job making minimal wage (oh snap unemployment numbers go down) as opposed to to committing a crime (oh snap x 2 prison populations go down), which then might mean better rehab and services for those that are in but are scheduled to get out (oh snap x 10 greater ratio of counselors to prisoners) which then could lead to taking a chunk out of that $63.4 Billion a year figure (oh snap x 100 we just fixed the US in 1 beer).

I always referred to it as the Hard Right over the Easy Wrong...

 

[policemedic]

How much do we need the extra 10k we will receive from a low-risk robbery like a convenience store?

I don't think people are dumb. Corporate criminals are educated individuals who know crime is wrong.

I know you probably pulled the number out of thin air, but 10K from a convenience store robbery? That's not going to happen on the regular. The average number is significantly less.

In fact, I'm trying to remember the last bank robbery I worked and I'm not sure it was 10k.

As for corporate criminals? Completely agree. But I'd say that the high school dropout snatching cellphones also knows it's wrong to rob people. It's just that neither the privileged office dude nor the hard scrabble robber gives a damn.

 

[0699]

How much do we need the extra 10k we will receive from a low-risk robbery like a convenience store? You make more as a military member with benefits and guaranteed pay as long as you perform at the level of mediocre human being.

I think $10,000 is an EXTREMELY high estimate for proceeds from robbing a convenience store (shop-n-rob) or gas station. I would guess the average profit from these is less than $100. Most of them put all but 1-2 $20 bills in a time lock safe just for this reason.

The low-income family in the mountains who are on their last nickel? I wager they stand a lot more to gain from crime, thus, telling them "don't steal" isn't effective.

I think we are misunderstanding the impact drugs have on minor crimes. A lot of muggers, small-time stickup men, etc., are looking for enough money to score their next few hits of meth, heroin, or the like. If they were talented crooks, they wouldn't be robbing gas stations.

Also, the stories being told here revolve around those few prisoners that committed minor crimes, went to prison for a short term, and while in prison KEPT FUCKING UP, then got put in solitary for a reason. They aren't telling you about all the seriously bad dudes in solitary because they killed guards or other convicts, or the majority of prisoners that are in general population keeping their noses clean. It's bad enough to go to prison in the first place, but if you can't keep your nose clean while there, the system has to take corrective action.

Let us not allow the stories being told by MSM (so they can sell more advertising and/or push their liberal agenda) make us think that all these poor guys in prison just because all judges are racists and they got sent to prison only because they're black or immigrants are also in solitary because a guard got mad at them. I know and understand that there are some major problems with our prison system, but let's not go crazy or throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[policemedic]

Not for nothing, but prison guards don't have the authority to send people to 'the hole' on their own.

 

[Red Flag 1]

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[0699]

Not for nothing, but prison guards don't have the authority to send people to 'the hole' on their own.

Bro, I'm not saying they do. I'm saying the MSM wants you to believe they can, because that supports the story being told. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

 

[Il Duce]

Hard agree. I get daily crime reports from our county in Virginia, and the two modestly sized cities. Things that are being stolen are items that can be easily resold within a few hours of the crimes. It is pretty clear that well over 50% of the crimes I see reported are crimes that are drug relataed. I'm willing to bet that some of the stolen items are fenced even before the crime report has been processed by the responding LEO agency. Proceeds taken from most business establishments are universally below four figures. Just off the top of my head, I don't recall seeing too many above $200.00. The stolen funds are often transacted for drugs within an hour of the crime.

In that case (and I don't disagree on crime - especially in urban areas) it seems like the case for the reform of drug laws and drug prohibition is even more powerful than prison reform.

 

[policemedic]

Bro, I'm not saying they do. I'm saying the MSM wants you to believe they can, because that supports the story being told. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

Oh I know you weren't. I was just speaking generally.

And you're right about the media.

 

[0699]

Oh I know you weren't. I was just speaking generally.

And you're right about the media.

 

[Red Flag 1]

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[Il Duce]

I've heard some commentators on the subject (in every case they are extremely partisan on the side of legalizing drugs across the board) make a very convincing case - to me anyway - that essentially goes like this:

If drugs are legalized and consumption is subsidized through healthcare it provides an avenue to:
1. Neuter the massive illicit drug economy that fuels organized crime, third-world instability, corruption - and massively exacerbates other problems like human smuggling
2. Eliminate the majority of the property crime, petty theft, prostitution, and gang-violence/activity that hamstrings urban development and clogs our very expensive penal system
3. De-militarizes police interactions with elements of the community (mostly through 2 above) and allows us to focus our LE community on a more productive engagement, prevention, and investigative model
4. Provide a single-entry system for addiction care and rehabilitation
5. Raise barriers for children or other at-risk groups to have access to drugs as legitimate businesses now have to weigh the consequences of breaking the law in a way criminal organizations do not

I think the tough thing conceptually is that nowhere does that case address drugs being right/wrong, reflect the values of our society, or show a path to making those changes.

I think though it reflects the way I see a lot of public policy. Doing what's best for investing public resources for the best outcomes - and letting people fuck themselves up as much or as little as they'd like as their right.

To me it's one of the problems with the legalize drugs side of things. Absent the regulatory and policy structure for the public good I think arguments about being able to use drugs because it's right/wrong are meaningless.

 

[Red Flag 1]

T

 

[TLDR20]

To legalize the current street drug business would revolutionize many things. It could be done with a proper plan to deal with the number of addicts across the nation. It would be a money maker for the drug companies, and put the drug lords, pushers and runners out of business.

It could be done, and it would be a world changing event, in many ways.

I don't see Phizer or Merck rushing to grow pot. Phillip Morris on the other hand...

 

[Red Flag 1]

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[Il Duce]

I think the position most of the legalize drugs partisans take on the issue is that addiction levels, especially debilitating addiction levels will not be particularly high. Essentially people will use drugs and be less productive but still functioning members of society. There's certainly some evidence on that side of things but I think when you're talking about such a massive shift in public policy - with a difficult time putting the genie back in the bottle - it's a tough sell.

I worry that the gradual lifting of the prohibition on drugs will give us the worst of both worlds. More drug use, bigger markets, but still a thriving illicit trade and all the power that entails. It's one of the things I think you need a government for - and why libertarians suck at the drug policy game other than blanket legalizations. I read there was some really effective planning that went into the Colorado legalization policies but I guess that's another problem with public policy - every plan promises the world but delivery on execution can be problematic (ACA being a prime example in my thinking).