Spetsnaz in Besland pics
- Thread starter Lyle
- Start date
Robal should have more infos about Biesland, it is his AO after all :)
Typhoon
Unverified
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2006
- Messages
- 643
Thanks for posting the pictures, Choose. I just finished Terror At Beslan by John Giduck, and on Friday HBO ran their documentary "The Children of Beslan". The men of the Speznaz acted with incredible bravery during that barbaric attack, with the operators placing themselves between the terrorists and the fleeing children to protect them during ending firefight.
Anyone who works in a school in this country should take serious note of what happened at School #1 in September 2004...
Anyone who works in a school in this country should take serious note of what happened at School #1 in September 2004...
Excellent photos! Thank you for sharing these!
I have two small children- one of them is 8 years old, and the other is 6.
Every time I am reminded about the massacre of these children in Beslan, I instantly think of my own children. To know that -but for the grace of God- these could have been my own children, it really causes me to grieve for those who have had so much taken from them. The agony of losing a child must be absolutely unbearable, and seems to be something a parent never really recovers from completely. Even after many years, they seem to have trouble ever really moving on. No parent should ever have to outlive their children. To have them taken in such a senseless, violent, terrifying way makes it even more difficult.
Those men who tried to protect and save as many children as possible deserve so much credit. I too have also read that they tried to get between the terrorists and the children on more than one instance. It is a credit to their unit, and to their character. I hope they are successful in wiping out the remains of terrorists like this in the long run.
I have two small children- one of them is 8 years old, and the other is 6.
Every time I am reminded about the massacre of these children in Beslan, I instantly think of my own children. To know that -but for the grace of God- these could have been my own children, it really causes me to grieve for those who have had so much taken from them. The agony of losing a child must be absolutely unbearable, and seems to be something a parent never really recovers from completely. Even after many years, they seem to have trouble ever really moving on. No parent should ever have to outlive their children. To have them taken in such a senseless, violent, terrifying way makes it even more difficult.
Those men who tried to protect and save as many children as possible deserve so much credit. I too have also read that they tried to get between the terrorists and the children on more than one instance. It is a credit to their unit, and to their character. I hope they are successful in wiping out the remains of terrorists like this in the long run.
Operator
Unverified
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2007
- Messages
- 46
Not neccesarily Beslan, no.
I don`t have anything special to pull out here, but i first read about the "Spetsnaz" operations in afghanistan when the Soviets deployed forces there in 1978.
Spetsnaz recon patrols were sent out to different villages back then, and were referred to by the locals as "Deathsquads" or something similar.
Psy/Reconops where basically soviet special forces teams could go into a village and only execute the kids(or something else very horrible) in that exact village, just to scare the hell out of innocent afghans and give them the impression that the Soviet forces would stop at nothing. And by that also spreading the rumour on.
In soviet/russian operations after the soviet-afghan war where different Spetsnaz groups has been involved, there has been lots of conflicts even internally in Russia, where the Spetsnaz has been accused of very "un-human" acts against civillians etc. The Spetsnaz answer directly to the russian Federal Security Service and GRU wich for many years has had different spetsnaz groups at their disposal.
I guess the rumors here are way bigger than what is actually confirmed, but there is without a doubt truth in many of these accusations.
I don`t have anything special to pull out here, but i first read about the "Spetsnaz" operations in afghanistan when the Soviets deployed forces there in 1978.
Spetsnaz recon patrols were sent out to different villages back then, and were referred to by the locals as "Deathsquads" or something similar.
Psy/Reconops where basically soviet special forces teams could go into a village and only execute the kids(or something else very horrible) in that exact village, just to scare the hell out of innocent afghans and give them the impression that the Soviet forces would stop at nothing. And by that also spreading the rumour on.
In soviet/russian operations after the soviet-afghan war where different Spetsnaz groups has been involved, there has been lots of conflicts even internally in Russia, where the Spetsnaz has been accused of very "un-human" acts against civillians etc. The Spetsnaz answer directly to the russian Federal Security Service and GRU wich for many years has had different spetsnaz groups at their disposal.
I guess the rumors here are way bigger than what is actually confirmed, but there is without a doubt truth in many of these accusations.
Yes, Soviet/Russian soldiers/security services commited many crimes in wars , in Poland too.
Btw, not always unit named "special purspose" in Russia mean SOF/CT/SWAT so the Spetsnaz was not the only responsible i think, especially it always was small , in compare to other units (2 Brigades from GRU) and had many other missions (including hunting for Stinger missles and western advisors).
But when it comes to Chechenya, those things look like a coin - they have two sides, and many people here forget about it - they don't like Russia so much that they are unable to see full image and especially Chechens were portrayed in Poland as heros...that sometimes pises me off...
Btw, not always unit named "special purspose" in Russia mean SOF/CT/SWAT so the Spetsnaz was not the only responsible i think, especially it always was small , in compare to other units (2 Brigades from GRU) and had many other missions (including hunting for Stinger missles and western advisors).
But when it comes to Chechenya, those things look like a coin - they have two sides, and many people here forget about it - they don't like Russia so much that they are unable to see full image and especially Chechens were portrayed in Poland as heros...that sometimes pises me off...
I think that is mostly BS. Alot of it comes from peoples' biases that Russians/Soviets are "mean" and "evil."
Operator
Unverified
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2007
- Messages
- 46
About that coin point (and chechenya), I couldnt have said it better myself Robal.
--Choose. As I said, in every situation there will always be bs and facts.
Some things are actually confirmed and some things will forever stay unknown.
But In comparison to Russian SF/Armed Forces, Western Forces are choirboys when it comes to "giving a shit about collateral damage"
I actually managed to read myself to a bachelor degree in War History and International Politics and Security besides my military "career" lol, so I know a bit about it.
In every "poor", "unorganized", "conflict-full" country, there will be more: Crime, Conflict, Conspiracy and Corruption.
That is the way it has been for a thousand years and that is the way its gonna be for the next thousand years. It never fails.
Choose, there may be plenty of left-over bias from the Cold War, but that is on both sides of the fence. Russia dishes out tons of crank about the USA every day. Vladimir Putin himself will use the USA in a negative way to boost his popularity. That's nothing new. It almost seems that superpowers need each other in order to stay stable- a kind of tension.
What is for sure is that Spetznaz has a ruthless reputation- and they seem to want it that way. In some ways I agree with (certain aspects of) their philosophy. That is, if Spetznaz shows up, somebody is going to get crushed. In this way, people are discouraged from going up against them. You never see Spetznaz handing out aid packets, or carrying little snot-nosed kids around, like the Marines do in Haiti. That might be a touchy subject for some, but, hey, that's another topic for another thread.
I posted in another thread about Spetznaz, and how their method of removing a person from a vehicle does not involve opening the door, or opening the window. They smash the rear window of the vehicle with a sledgehammer. I've seen a video of it. Their methods are not necessarily designed to be surgical. This is just my observation, but from the accounts I've read, and the few videos I've seen, the Spetznaz historically have seemed to put much more emphasis on 100% mission accomplishment as the driving force. Whatever the tactic is needed to GUARANTEE SUCCESS, with the highest probability, that is the tactic that goes on the top of the list of options. After that, other concerns come second... including casualties, and public opinion.
What is for sure is that Spetznaz has a ruthless reputation- and they seem to want it that way. In some ways I agree with (certain aspects of) their philosophy. That is, if Spetznaz shows up, somebody is going to get crushed. In this way, people are discouraged from going up against them. You never see Spetznaz handing out aid packets, or carrying little snot-nosed kids around, like the Marines do in Haiti. That might be a touchy subject for some, but, hey, that's another topic for another thread.
I posted in another thread about Spetznaz, and how their method of removing a person from a vehicle does not involve opening the door, or opening the window. They smash the rear window of the vehicle with a sledgehammer. I've seen a video of it. Their methods are not necessarily designed to be surgical. This is just my observation, but from the accounts I've read, and the few videos I've seen, the Spetznaz historically have seemed to put much more emphasis on 100% mission accomplishment as the driving force. Whatever the tactic is needed to GUARANTEE SUCCESS, with the highest probability, that is the tactic that goes on the top of the list of options. After that, other concerns come second... including casualties, and public opinion.
I have mixed thoughts about this. (Excuse the grammar, as there's a key broken on my keyboard.)First, terrorism defeats itsef as the perpetrators think of more extreme acts to commit. This one was conceived in advance. The ones who can or may support a group become disgusted the more radica the methods and atrocities become. To wit, witness what has happened in Iraq recenty with a mass defection of AQ.
Second, at Besan there were peope, from Besan, who became tired of waiting and armed themseves and started shooting. This brought the program foreward rather quicky. They shoud have been disarmed. This is not to detract from what was accompished, but it wasn't perfect.
Second, at Besan there were peope, from Besan, who became tired of waiting and armed themseves and started shooting. This brought the program foreward rather quicky. They shoud have been disarmed. This is not to detract from what was accompished, but it wasn't perfect.
Yes. they're many time ruthless, but I''m not surprised...the russian mafia and Chechens (and their supporters like jordanian terrorist Khattab are ruthless too.
But their CT units - mostly Alpha - have a lot of hostage situations solved with 0 or minimal "collateral damage", even in times of USSR. In 1983, in Tibilisi they saved 55 hostages from hijacked airliner. In 1986 they liberated another plane.
Civilians at Bieslan...it this region a weapon makes man , more than on full auto AK at evry home and it's man duty to protect family.
I don't think there was a way to disarm them or force to go back to homes...but they - according to my knowledge - waiting alongside police, military, spetsnaz etc, and when explosions started, they fought together to save children...
Robal2pl
But their CT units - mostly Alpha - have a lot of hostage situations solved with 0 or minimal "collateral damage", even in times of USSR. In 1983, in Tibilisi they saved 55 hostages from hijacked airliner. In 1986 they liberated another plane.
Civilians at Bieslan...it this region a weapon makes man , more than on full auto AK at evry home and it's man duty to protect family.
I don't think there was a way to disarm them or force to go back to homes...but they - according to my knowledge - waiting alongside police, military, spetsnaz etc, and when explosions started, they fought together to save children...
Robal2pl
Typhoon
Unverified
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2006
- Messages
- 643
John Giduck does an excellent job of detailing the time line of the terror attack at School #1 in Beslan, as well as putting to rest a number of myths which surround the incident. In the weeks following the attack Giduck used his contacts within the Russian military to conduct extensive interviews with the participants and eyewitnesses. This was a difficult task as there was at the time an active effort by the government to silence participants and witnesses in order to cleanse the collective memory of Russians...
G
GranDa
Guest
About Beslan. If You're not sure yourself, don't look it...
NSFW!!
THESE PHOTOS ARE ABOUT AS GRAPHIC AS YOU WILL EVER SEE!!!
CONTENTS ARE GRAPHIC PHOTOS OF DEAD/MUTILATED/BURNT BODIES, INCLUDING THOSE OF CHILDREN!!!
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!!
http://www.reyndar.org/~reyndar1/1/Thumbnails.html
NSFW!!
THESE PHOTOS ARE ABOUT AS GRAPHIC AS YOU WILL EVER SEE!!!
CONTENTS ARE GRAPHIC PHOTOS OF DEAD/MUTILATED/BURNT BODIES, INCLUDING THOSE OF CHILDREN!!!
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!!
http://www.reyndar.org/~reyndar1/1/Thumbnails.html
Similar threads
