Texas Church Shootings

Kraut783

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Kaldak

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Here is a link to the video of the shooting *Graphic Warning*

Shooting occurs at the top of the video, the guy who put him down with one shot is the head of the churches unofficial security of license to carry holders and runs a gun range. Bad guy shoots two with shotgun, good guy shoots the third shot, hitting suspect in the head.

Gunman kills two people in Texas church shooting

That was unbelievably fast, and equally accurate, shooting by the good guy.

Bravo fucking Zulu.
 

Jaknight

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Here is a link to the video of the shooting *Graphic Warning*

Shooting occurs at the top of the video, the guy who put him down with one shot is the head of the churches unofficial security of license to carry holders and runs a gun range. Bad guy shoots two with shotgun, good guy shoots the third shot, hitting suspect in the head.

Gunman kills two people in Texas church shooting
Thank God that Mr.Jack Wilson was there to stop that scumbag otherwise it would have been a bigger tragedy with many bodies
 

Blizzard

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Here is a link to the video of the shooting *Graphic Warning*

Shooting occurs at the top of the video, the guy who put him down with one shot is the head of the churches unofficial security of license to carry holders and runs a gun range. Bad guy shoots two with shotgun, good guy shoots the third shot, hitting suspect in the head.

Gunman kills two people in Texas church shooting
Pretty good shot. At least a half dozen other church members had weapons drawn in that video as well.
 
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Ooh-Rah

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I watched the video again, enlarging the screen to really see what happened. One of the men who was killed was noticeably fumbling, dare I say, hesitating, to get his gun. He went down trying to do so.

Not criticizing in anyway, but just reinforces something I've long thought about when sitting in a coffee shop, church, wherever.

What if?

I was just sitting here on my iPad pasting a meme on ShadowSpear, suddenly there's a tool waving a gun around? What are the rules-of-engagement?

Wait til he starts shooting first?

Shoot him because he looks like a threat? (talking to you, Chipotle AR carrying weenies).

Watching that video has been sobering, at best.
 

policemedic

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Apparently he’s not a retired SA. Even if he was, I submit that he has not been cleared criminally and everything he says in the media is admissible. Saying the shooter was “an evil” and not human simply does not play well. More importantly, it’s admissible in a civil trial filed by the shooter’s family.

He’ll be cleared criminally, no doubt. He shouldn’t muddy the waters, though. He also needs to realize that a grand jury returning no true bill or the DA clearing him means diddly squat; he can still be sued civilly.

Wait until you’re cleared and until after it’s too late for them to file suit, then write a book or sell the movie rights.

But for right now, shut the fuck up.
 

Devildoc

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This this this.

Unless the family moves for a change of venue to an entirely different state, what jury will convict? Especially with that video? Any attorney worth his or her salt will tell the family to not pursue.

Is a national hero, if they choose to sue that lawsuit will never see the light of day.
 

Ooh-Rah

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Without going too much off topic, I don’t think you are giving enough credit to an attorney “worth his or her salt”
Any attorney worth his or her salt will tell the family to not pursue.

I think you might be giving too much credit to a perceived “Texas Justice” paradigm.
if they choose to sue that lawsuit will never see the light of day.

In the 20 years of carry classes, renewal classes, and tactical handgun defense classes I have taken, every single instructor has always repeated the same mantra, “keep your mouth shut”.

See also:
You can say/do it, but how much “justice” can you afford?
 

Devildoc

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@Ooh-Rah , there doesn't need to be any witnesses. The video alone will be enough, even if an attorney calls it inflammatory and tries to suppress. A quarter of the church was armed and trying to take action.

I see your points, but this guy can admit to being the second gunman on the grassy knoll and will still be a hero.

I've also had the classes, yadda yadda yadda, and know what defense attorneys would say, and I agree.
 

Gunz

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What if?

I was just sitting here on my iPad pasting a meme on ShadowSpear, suddenly there's a tool waving a gun around? What are the rules-of-engagement?

Wait til he starts shooting first?


No. If he's "waving a gun" he's dead meat.

But it's a good question.

Is it an "open-carry activist" or potential mass shooter? First you look for a badge. No badge, my hand is on my gun--in it's holster--and I'm getting ready. You watch his hands. If he starts drawing a handgun or the barrel of his long gun goes in any direction I deem unsafe, I'd feel justified blasting him.

Best case, you've saved lives and killed a homicidal nutjob. Worst case, you've rid the world of a fucking open carry moron and have to go to court.
 
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Devildoc

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@Ooh-Rah , does your state have the Castle Doctrine? In NC, if I see that fella of whom you speak outside, I stay inside and call the cops. If he comes into my house then it's game on, I have no legal duty to retreat, and I am justified as legally his presence represent a threat to me and my family by merely being in my house as an intruder.

I don't know how I would act in a church or a store or a large establishment with a lot of people, and God willing I never will have to know. My bottom line is to protect me and my family and get the hell out of Dodge.
 

Blizzard

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@Ooh-Rah , does your state have the Castle Doctrine? In NC, if I see that fella of whom you speak outside, I stay inside and call the cops. If he comes into my house then it's game on, I have no legal duty to retreat, and I am justified as legally his presence represent a threat to me and my family by merely being in my house as an intruder.

I don't know how I would act in a church or a store or a large establishment with a lot of people, and God willing I never will have to know. My bottom line is to protect me and my family and get the hell out of Dodge.
Although not specifically Castle Doctrine, we have the right to use deadly force in our home if it's reasonably believed you are in danger of "great bodily harm". We're not a stand your ground state, you have a duty to retreat. The statute has potential to leave you legally exposed.

Here's our statute on use of force:
Sec. 609.06 MN Statutes
 

DA SWO

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You mean, shut up pending further investigation and potential civil case? That kind of shut up?
Nope, Texas laws are quite clear. 100% justified.
He was stopping a criminal action, and deadly force is authorized. They will go through the motions, but this never sees a Grand Jury.
Texas also has a loser pays policy for civil suits, i.e. the loser pays the other parties legal bills. It has really cut down on the number of nuisance/SJW lawsuits.
 

Marauder06

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I hope his family DOES sue. That will keep this issue, and that guy's words and deeds, in the public eye throughout next year's election. Plus, I'm pretty confident there's no way he loses, firing one shot at a dude that just murdered two people, inside a church, in Texas...
 
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