The Afghanistan and Pakistan Thread
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Pakistan arrests 4 in 'honor killing' of woman, 18, who appeared with boyfriend in viral photo
Yikes. Imagine getting whacked by your own dad for the 'crime' of being photographed sitting with a boy they didn't like.
...now imagine the above, and the possibility that the photo was a fake.
Yikes. Imagine getting whacked by your own dad for the 'crime' of being photographed sitting with a boy they didn't like.
...now imagine the above, and the possibility that the photo was a fake.
Now imagine that shit here in America. We had an "Honor Killing" in Texas, dad didn't get away, so he gets un-airconditioned Huntsville.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Pretty sure there are more than a few of those every month in Ilhan's district. /semi-serious
"We need to be more tolerant of other cultures."
"OMG!!!! That's so barbaric! Women are always the victim because of the global patriarchy."
Ah, go fuck yourself. They are animals and have been for about ever. They always will be and you aren't changing them. So, accept shit like this or get onboard with genocide. STFU and go check on your carbon footprint, you naïve shitbag.
Sent from my child slave labor mined and made iPhone, but you don't give a fuck about that, either
"OMG!!!! That's so barbaric! Women are always the victim because of the global patriarchy."
Ah, go fuck yourself. They are animals and have been for about ever. They always will be and you aren't changing them. So, accept shit like this or get onboard with genocide. STFU and go check on your carbon footprint, you naïve shitbag.
Sent from my child slave labor mined and made iPhone, but you don't give a fuck about that, either
Last night I listened in on a panel discussion about Afghanistan that was hosted by a major US research university. The panelists were highly educated Afghan-Americans who grew up in Afghanistan and then came to America for higher education. They are now US citizens. The moderator was a US citizen who worked in Afghanistan for a number of years.
The panelists were very interesting and well-informed, and the moderation was excellent. One of the panelists observed, not approvingly but objectively, that a number of things under the Taliban have gotten better; the afghani (the currency; Afghans are the people) has stabilized, the fighting is dramatically lessened, the hawala monetary system is thriving, opium cultivation is way down, etc. In short, it sounded to me a lot like what life was like for the Afghans before the war.
During Q&A, audience members were invited to post questions in the Zoom chat, and the moderator answered them sequentially as they were posted. After thinking about it for a while, I asked a question with words to the effect of,
"A lot of things seem to be going well in Afghanistan right now, or at least as good as they were pre-9/11, and the same people who were in charge then are back in charge now. As someone who served with the US Army in Afghanistan four times, my question is, 'would the Afghan people have been better off if the Americans never came?'"
They did not have time to get down to my question before the event ran out of time.
It's OK. I think I already know the answer.
The panelists were very interesting and well-informed, and the moderation was excellent. One of the panelists observed, not approvingly but objectively, that a number of things under the Taliban have gotten better; the afghani (the currency; Afghans are the people) has stabilized, the fighting is dramatically lessened, the hawala monetary system is thriving, opium cultivation is way down, etc. In short, it sounded to me a lot like what life was like for the Afghans before the war.
During Q&A, audience members were invited to post questions in the Zoom chat, and the moderator answered them sequentially as they were posted. After thinking about it for a while, I asked a question with words to the effect of,
"A lot of things seem to be going well in Afghanistan right now, or at least as good as they were pre-9/11, and the same people who were in charge then are back in charge now. As someone who served with the US Army in Afghanistan four times, my question is, 'would the Afghan people have been better off if the Americans never came?'"
They did not have time to get down to my question before the event ran out of time.
It's OK. I think I already know the answer.
Kraut783
SOF Support
...things would have been better if we had not put the warlords out of power....you know, the Northern Alliance we allied with to beat the Taliban, then screwed because we failed to understand the culture there...
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Were any of them women?
Fair call. As an aside, I don’t think hawala is really affected by much. The GFC had its effects but hawala rolled on unaffected.
Yes.
R.Caerbannog
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Not to sound mysoginystic, but do ex Afghani women's opinions on Afghanistan really matter? I assumed the current Afghan govt would stone them. Also, how many of these presenters were in some way hooked in with the previous govt?
Add on: Any word on the Chinese or Paki's helping the Taliban?
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The opinions of one Westernized Afghan woman almost certainly do not matter to the Taliban. But they did to me.
R.Caerbannog
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I dunno. I have little trust for female academics, but it would be very interesting to hear what they were saying.
Devildoc
Verified Military
Yes, we could have. Expanding the footprint and mission creep and democracy building were tragically awful that led to... well, you know where. A SOF-led mission to destroy AQ/UBL with supporting elements, telling the Taliban to get the hell out of the way was, I think, the way to go.
But you know how it is in a war. It's a big-ass pie, and everyone wants their piece.
A highly emotional war, the first where ground troops could be used in a decade? Conventional Army and Marine leadership would not allow this to happen.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
Were they wearing Burqas or Hijabs?
If they were in normal professional attire then what's the purpose of them being on the panel to say Afghanistan is better? Girls can't even go to school and we're back to full on honor killings. Or did they miss that part?
Let's not act like the SOF folks didn't enjoy the war going long, they got their commands large, more bodies etc.
I may have been unclear in my initial post.
She did not say Afghanistan is better off; to the contrary. That's why she's living here in the US instead of back in her home country. She said some things in Afghanistan have improved for the average Afghan since the Taliban retook power. Such as, the fighting has decreased (because the Taliban have far fewer people to fight). The infrastructure is holding up (because the Taliban isn't blowing it up). Opium cultivation is way down (because the Taliban want to control the market and drive up the price). The currency has stabilized (because the Taliban aren't destabilizing everything).
I haven't fact-checked any of the above, but it seems to me that it is all likely true, because that was pretty much the case in Afghanistan prior to 9/11. So for me, what she said is accurate and objective. She was definitely not a cheerleader for the Taliban, nor did she imply that the country is better off because the Taliban are back in charge.
Box
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Didn't enjoy the war ???
The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were lit baby.
Participation medals, accelerated promotions, layovers in places like Rota Spain, Germany, Mildenhall, Sicily - steak and lobster - snickers ice cream bars - all the mother fucking Rip-Its your system can handle - not to mention the freedom to smack someone in the solar plexus with a d-cell mag lite with ZERO concern that you'll end up defending yourself against assault and battery charges...
I got lots of cool boots - lots of sunglasses - new kit - I got years and years and years worth of tax breaks for being deployed - family sep pay - hostile fire pay - tax exempt retention bonuses through the roof - and some of my buddies were making hundreds of dollars per day in contract money...
War is awesome.
My curiosity always comes at the end of a conflict - when folks start "telling their story" about how things coulda' been different.
...and when a handful of Afghans that 'came to America and became US citizens decide they are gonna 'tell me how it is'
Exactly.
Shit is better because the Taliban is no longer punishing them for trying to improve their lives in spite of the Taliban. Saying it has improved is like saying, "I'm getting my ass beat by bullies a lot less these days now that I have quit trying to make my life better. I'm only getting fucked over by armed thugs three or four times a week now."
Afghans living in America as US Citizens while talking shit about their current condition can kick rocks.
... fuhgeddaboudit
The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were lit baby.
Participation medals, accelerated promotions, layovers in places like Rota Spain, Germany, Mildenhall, Sicily - steak and lobster - snickers ice cream bars - all the mother fucking Rip-Its your system can handle - not to mention the freedom to smack someone in the solar plexus with a d-cell mag lite with ZERO concern that you'll end up defending yourself against assault and battery charges...
I got lots of cool boots - lots of sunglasses - new kit - I got years and years and years worth of tax breaks for being deployed - family sep pay - hostile fire pay - tax exempt retention bonuses through the roof - and some of my buddies were making hundreds of dollars per day in contract money...
War is awesome.
My curiosity always comes at the end of a conflict - when folks start "telling their story" about how things coulda' been different.
...and when a handful of Afghans that 'came to America and became US citizens decide they are gonna 'tell me how it is'
Exactly.
Shit is better because the Taliban is no longer punishing them for trying to improve their lives in spite of the Taliban. Saying it has improved is like saying, "I'm getting my ass beat by bullies a lot less these days now that I have quit trying to make my life better. I'm only getting fucked over by armed thugs three or four times a week now."
Afghans living in America as US Citizens while talking shit about their current condition can kick rocks.
... fuhgeddaboudit
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War is great unless you get shredded. I’d gladly return my Purple Heart if it meant not having to do that last contact again. But hell, I embraced the rush up until then.
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