The Democratization of the Army Uniform

[digrar]

I had a name tag sewn on over my left breast pocket and a rising sun biscuit on my left shoulder, my beret had a Royal Australian Regiment badge on it and my slouch hat had a Royal Australian Regiment badge and a rising sun badge on it. That's all anyone needed to see to know who I was and where I was from.

 

[HOLLiS]

Hollis how can you say "I had the KISS system drilled into me. It makes sense when they is say, "The army with the simplest uniforms wins." when you Guys wear that Dress Blue uniform? ;)

LOL, Dress Blues are a babe magnet. The Corps knows what a young Marine needs. Sadly, we were not issued them when I was in.

I understand the FOG issue, sometimes I think I have more in common with those who fought at Valley Forge than those serving today.


In RVN, we had nothing on our cammis to designate anything. Our Utilities could have a iron on Marine Corps emblem on the breast pocket. Our Covers had Eagle, globe and anchor embossed (correct word?) on it. As I mention rank, if it was worn was worn on the cover. Sometime in the inside of the cover. Everyone in the Company knew who everyone was. Bush Marines are not to be confused with garrison Marines.

On utilities in the states, rank was worn on the collar tab. I think for the Corps it is a much smaller organization than the Army. I don't remember anyone every challenging Gunny on his qualification. I had a Gunny who as a grunt in Korea, he had a number of confirms with his e-tool. I don't know if the Marines today have the same natural respect for Gunnys that we had. In RVN some of the SNCOs where in Korean and in WWII. For us, young Marines, we were in awe of them. It is a Old Corps respect thing.

Thanks for the information.

H.

 

[0699]

On utilities in the states, rank was worn on the collar tab. I think for the Corps it is a much smaller organization than the Army. I don't remember anyone every challenging Gunny on his qualification. I had a Gunny who as a grunt in Korea, he had a number of confirms with his e-tool. I don't know if the Marines today have the same natural respect for Gunnys that we had. In RVN some of the SNCOs where in Korean and in WWII. For us, young Marines, we were in awe of them. It is a Old Corps respect thing.

Thanks for the information.

H.

Yes they do. The two best ranks in the Corps are corporal & gunnery sergeant.

 

[car]

Couple of thoughts --

I like the ACU (although many here don't like it), mainly because it's easy to wear and I don't have to spend a lot of money maintining it or sewing a bunch of shit onto it.

Driving through Sierra Vista the other day, one of my battalion commanders wondered out loud "I wonder how much business all these laundries and sew shops lost when the ACU came out?" Response was, "Well, if joe still wants pay to have them washed......" The conversation morphed into shoe shines and boot blacks........and George at XVIII Airborne Corps HQ- who remembers him?

I'm ambivilous (sp?) about pin-on v. sew-on. If it's pin-on, I'll never wear pin-on scare badges. 1) don't have to impress anyone anymore, 2) as a young paratrooper, we still had pin-on but it was a safety hazard, so you had to take it off for jumps - just an ingrained thing), 3) I have no problem with sew-on skill badges for the ACU - but we all know the cost. Even at Bragg, where that kind of thing is cheap, it would cost several dollars per uniform to sew everything on.:2c:

Thoughtful article.

Edit -- My Brigade XO in Germany was married to a Brit. He (the Brit) referred to ACUs as "your pajamas," but said that he liked them.

 

[AssadUSMC]

Yes they do. The two best ranks in the Corps are corporal & gunnery sergeant.

Amen, brother. One of my biggest regrets was getting out before I could make gunny...

 

[0699]

Amen, brother. One of my biggest regrets was getting out before I could make gunny...

You missed out, but I'm sure you had your fun at corporal...

Man, did I wear some people out when I was a corporal...

 

[Ranger Psych]

I wore all earned awards according to 670-1 when I was in Regiment... combat scroll, CIB or EIB (depending on which uniform out of the pile I had, S&S had CIB's) and Jump wings.

Once I transitioned to the ACU, I made the personal decision that if you couldn't figure out shit by seeing a combat scroll on my shoulder, then I didnt' give a fuck. I didn't even have a CIB, EIB, or Jump wings in the black metal because I was out training in body armor as much as possible with my joes so they'd get used to the weight and how it affected their performance and capabilities.

I was one of the few guys I knew in Bat that wore their Class A's more often than just for Ranger ball. I would go home every winter in them because I had the option to, I was proud of where I was, What I had done, and it was a point of pride for my parents as well... I spent a half day the last time I went home in A's explaining everything to my mother and father... and seeing my father proud of my accomplishments considering how adamant he had been about me NOT serving, was a wonderful thing.

Then again, many a course class and skill I had been at, trained, or performed didn't have a badge, placard, ribbon or even a certificate...

 

[Trip_Wire]

I wore all earned awards according to 670-1 when I was in Regiment... combat scroll, CIB or EIB (depending on which uniform out of the pile I had, S&S had CIB's) and Jump wings.

Once I transitioned to the ACU, I made the personal decision that if you couldn't figure out shit by seeing a combat scroll on my shoulder, then I didnt' give a fuck. I didn't even have a CIB, EIB, or Jump wings in the black metal because I was out training in body armor as much as possible with my joes so they'd get used to the weight and how it affected their performance and capabilities.

I was one of the few guys I knew in Bat that wore their Class A's more often than just for Ranger ball. I would go home every winter in them because I had the option to, I was proud of where I was, What I had done, and it was a point of pride for my parents as well... I spent a half day the last time I went home in A's explaining everything to my mother and father... and seeing my father proud of my accomplishments considering how adamant he had been about me NOT serving, was a wonderful thing.

Then again, many a course class and skill I had been at, trained, or performed didn't have a badge, placard, ribbon or even a certificate...

Hooah! Ranger Good post!

 

[car]

I wore all earned awards according to 670-1 when I was in Regiment... combat scroll, CIB or EIB (depending on which uniform out of the pile I had, S&S had CIB's) and Jump wings.

Once I transitioned to the ACU, I made the personal decision that if you couldn't figure out shit by seeing a combat scroll on my shoulder, then I didnt' give a fuck. I didn't even have a CIB, EIB, or Jump wings in the black metal because I was out training in body armor as much as possible with my joes so they'd get used to the weight and how it affected their performance and capabilities.

I was one of the few guys I knew in Bat that wore their Class A's more often than just for Ranger ball. I would go home every winter in them because I had the option to, I was proud of where I was, What I had done, and it was a point of pride for my parents as well... I spent a half day the last time I went home in A's explaining everything to my mother and father... and seeing my father proud of my accomplishments considering how adamant he had been about me NOT serving, was a wonderful thing.

Then again, many a course class and skill I had been at, trained, or performed didn't have a badge, placard, ribbon or even a certificate...

Last time I wore my A's was at my grandmother's memorial service in May '07. I wear everything on my A's - that's what they're for :) - but I did the same thing, spent a lot of time (at the "after party") " 'splaing" each ribbon, badge, patch and device. Finally got tired of it and changed into jeans and a Hawaiian shirt.

 

[pardus]

We are criticized by foreign Armies, especially in the UK for all the badges we wear, as well as the number of ribbons and medals worn on our class A's. To them I say STFU, your just jealous! :)

It's a cultural thing, 'we' (commonwealth) tend to be a tad more reserved than you guys. ;)

I had a mate in the NZ Army who was on an exchange in the USA, he was attending the CSM's course here.
He said everyone was laughing at one medal the Americans were wearing, the one everyone got for serving when 9/11 happend, that everyone included the CSMs on the course :)

I had a name tag sewn on over my left breast pocket and a rising sun biscuit on my left shoulder, my beret had a Royal Australian Regiment badge on it and my slouch hat had a Royal Australian Regiment badge and a rising sun badge on it. That's all anyone needed to see to know who I was and where I was from.

In garrison I had a badge on my beret and my rank on my arm, in the bush I had nothing at all.
To me cammies are working dress, like c/overalls, if you want to wear badges etc... put on a dress uniform. :2c:

Finally got tired of it and changed into jeans and a Hawaiian shirt.

Nice!

 

[Marauder06]

I don't care one way or the other, I'm just as happy to not have anything but my name, rank, and service branch on the front. IMO, all the things that really matter you wear on your sleeves anyway (tabs and SSI-FWS).

 

[AWP]

In a few units the CIB is a cheap award anyway. Often, you can't even tell what unit a soldier served in combat with as I've seen many a Guard and Reserve soldier with a 101st patch. Having the SF patch isn't a big deal anymore either on the support side.

Honestly, there aren't many awards/ badges/ tabs that I put much stock in it without knowing the individual and circumstances. Our award policies are broken and it has cheapened the results.

 

[Ajax]

... Hell in fact I wear my PC more than I wear my beret now...

No you don't. You're a ballcap wear'n m'fer and you know it.:)

My personal take on this: badges are cool, but they've got a place and that place garrison. Just the opposite of where velcro should be. I think the Army, in the interest of being elite or thrifty, not sure which, got that one wrong. I'm not convinced that pin-on badges are saving anybody anything. Dammits fall off, badges need to be replaced. The arguement is not always wanting your 201 on your uniform. Well, that's why there are (or were) field uniforms and garrison uniforms. Remember back when SOF guys were berated for wearing a top with modified pockets and some velcro? That was a field uniform. And now everyone has one, in garrison.

I keep one uniform all pinned-up and pretty for impressing people who are impressed by that kind of thing, and need to be impressed. The rest of the time, I'm impressing them with my "quiet professionalism".

 

[surgicalcric]

No you don't. You're a ballcap wear'n m'fer and you know it.:)...

You are right! I do wear a ballcap when I can get away with it... ;)

 

[Equalizer]

For me it's the beret and jump boots, don't get me wrong I love the scare badges and I would wear everyone of them everyday, but the maroon, tan and green berets and jump boots in dress that links us to our proud past. I view the badges for what they are, a school, but the berets and jump boots are who we are and what we do. Much like the Rangers motto with the scroll and tab, the badges are a school, but the beret and jump boots are a way of life.:2c:

P.S. My ninja uniform seriously kick some ass :confused:

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

The Army combat uniform as a whole is a massive fail IMO. Everything from color, Velcro, sippers, and the stupid draw strings in the cargo pockets. I thought the idea behind the ACU was to build the ultimate field uniform, however it has no real field practicality.

When I started in the Army I was in a scout plt, we had BDU’s that were for field wear and then we had our starch and shines for inspection (garrison). Our field BDU’s had all the buttons from the top removed, besides the bottom pockets. The top pockets where sewed shut along with the flap closing the front of the top. All the extra material was removed from the entire uniform, extra little flab between the pocket flap, extra buttons and those stupid metal pieces that went on the sides of the waist. We would spend hours at the Korean ladies shop having things cut off and sewed shut.

I even had some small netting sewed in the armpits to allow for airflow. :)

We did not have badges on our field uniform however we did have the unit patch. Our boots were green jungles that had the toe and heel cup removed and were resoled in either ripple or aqua tred. We would take twigs and leave put them on our boots and then paint over them with browns and greens. Thus helping us conceal our selves better in different environments.

That was the best damn field uniform I had ever had! The boots were the best road marching, running and anything in the field I ever had! A far cry from the crap we wear now…

As for badges and tabs, they do need to be worn in garrison. It tells people who you are and where you have been. It’s a respect and pride thing that should always be kept IMO…

 

[car]

The Army combat uniform as a whole is a massive fail IMO. Everything from color, Velcro, sippers, and the stupid draw strings in the cargo pockets. I thought the idea behind the ACU was to build the ultimate field uniform, however it has no real field practicality.

When I started in the Army I was in a scout plt, we had BDU’s that were for field wear and then we had our starch and shines for inspection (garrison). Our field BDU’s had all the buttons from the top removed, besides the bottom pockets. The top pockets where sewed shut along with the flap closing the front of the top. All the extra material was removed from the entire uniform, extra little flab between the pocket flap, extra buttons and those stupid metal pieces that went on the sides of the waist. We would spend hours at the Korean ladies shop having things cut off and sewed shut.

I even had some small netting sewed in the armpits to allow for airflow. :)

We did not have badges on our field uniform however we did have the unit patch. Our boots were green jungles that had the toe and heel cup removed and were resoled in either ripple or aqua tred. We would take twigs and leave put them on our boots and then paint over them with browns and greens. Thus helping us conceal our selves better in different environments.

That was the best damn field uniform I had ever had! The boots were the best road marching, running and anything in the field I ever had! A far cry from the crap we wear now…

As for badges and tabs, they do need to be worn in garrison. It tells people who you are and where you have been. It’s a respect and pride thing that should always be kept IMO…

Who paid for all that? That's really the only question. 'Cause if joe was paying for it and the command was accepting it as SOP, then the command was wrong - and should have paid for it. It's real easy for a command to see it's Soldiers doing things outside the paradigm, and "looking the other way," but when it becomes a norm, the the commander has to step up and talk to his/her next higher commander about changing said paradigm.

The old 1SG in me has goose bumps - for two reasons. Ya don't get to alter the uniform, goddammit! That shit was personality driven from your commander - and was wrong.

The other side of the coin is that you guys figured how to adapt the shit you were handed and made it work - and were right.

How's that for ambivalence?

I think y'all were right, but your boss didn't do his job.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I think y'all were right, but your boss didn't do his job.

I could not agree more SGM and we would have never been caught dead in the rear like that. It was for field use only ;)

As for the cost, hell yeah that shit cost! I remember my boots alone were like $175 when it all said and done, the best damn $175 I ever spent too! :)

But absolutely, the cost was high and it would have been nice to have the unit pay for it. But getting a National Guard unit to pay for new gear, is like trying to get a blow job from Hillary Clinton! :eek: (at least that’s what we all figured, why else would Bill have got one from Monica?)

 

[Trip_Wire]

For me it's the beret and jump boots, don't get me wrong I love the scare badges and I would wear everyone of them everyday, but the maroon, tan and green berets and jump boots in dress that links us to our proud past. I view the badges for what they are, a school, but the berets and jump boots are who we are and what we do. Much like the Rangers motto with the scroll and tab, the badges are a school, but the beret and jump boots are a way of life.:2c:

P.S. My ninja uniform seriously kick some ass :confused:

As for the beret, you're right on the Green & Tan; however, in the case of the maroon beret it's my understanding that even non-qualified (no para wings) or 'legs' assigned to an airborne unit wear them.

IMO: When I see a soldier wearing a CIB/CMB and Master Parachutist badges, he gains more respect from me right off the get-go. If they have second award stars on their CIB/CMB even more respect, from me.

IMO, the top Army badges are:

1.) CIB/CMB (Not a school)

2.) Master Parachutist wings/Master HALO Wings

3.) Combat Diver badge (Or the New Special Ops. Diver badge)

4.) Pathfinder badge

5.) Combat Action Badge (Not a school, I do have some doubts about this one.)

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

As for the beret, you're right on the Green & Tan; however, in the case of the maroon beret it's my understanding that even non-qualified (no para wings) or 'legs' assigned to an airborne unit wear them.

IMO: When I see a soldier wearing a CIB/CMB and Master Parachutist badges, he gains more respect from me right off the get-go. If they have second award stars on their CIB/CMB even more respect, from me.

IMO, the top Army badges are:

1.) CIB/CMB (Not a school)

2.) Master Parachutist wings/Master HALO Wings

3.) Combat Diver badge (Or the New Special Ops. Diver badge)

4.) Pathfinder badge

5.) Close Combat Badge (Not a school, I do have some doubts about this one.)

I agree 100% When someone has BTDT you respect them alot more then someone that has not.

Close Combat Badge? Did you mean Combat Action Badge or CAB?

(CAB <~~Crying Ass Baby Award)