The Illegal Drug Discussion Thread

Marauder06

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Spinning this thread off of the West Point Drug Overdose one, with the intent that this thread becomes the clearinghouse for discussions related to illegal drugs.

In a question related to that thread, I understand fentanyl gives a better high and it's extremely concentrated and potent. Why would you lace your drugs with fentanyl, instead of selling just the drug or just the fentanyl? And if you were mixing the two, why wouldn't you tell you clients? If not to warn them, then as a marketing gimmick? "Hey bro, coke will get you high, but this fenty-coke is going to get you SUPER stoned."
 

TLDR20

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Spinning this thread off of the West Point Drug Overdose one, with the intent that this thread becomes the clearinghouse for discussions related to illegal drugs.

In a question related to that thread, I understand fentanyl gives a better high and it's extremely concentrated and potent. Why would you lace your drugs with fentanyl, instead of selling just the drug or just the fentanyl? And if you were mixing the two, why wouldn't you tell you clients? If not to warn them, then as a marketing gimmick? "Hey bro, coke will get you high, but this fenty-coke is going to get you SUPER stoned."

Awesome I am glad we are talking about this.

Fentanyl is actually a rapid acting synthetic opiate that has been with increasing frequency being added to other narcotic drugs, such as heroin. Adding fentanyl to cocaine has the same idea of a Jaeger bomb, or a 4-loko. Mix an upper and a downer... It also allows a strong drug to be further diluted with other additives. So less cocaine, more baking soda so to speak.

Additives to marijuana are rare. Adding something that weighs almost nothing, doesn't add to the street value, as it is bought and sold via weight. Many of the big scary stories about someone "ODing" on fentanyl laced marijuana, later show that the marijuana itself had no fentanyl in it, calling into question the validity of the victim. People are not ashamed to smoke pot, they are ashamed of their opiate addictions.

+(This doesn't apply to anyone here)+ I often see on Facebook and other social media, folks talking about fentanyl and its associated problems. They routinely point out the laced marijuana, and the police officer contact OD's in the same posts. It is almost impossible for the latter to happen. The former, after initial hysteria subsides, is shown to likely not have happened either. Dozens of CT overdoses were falsely linked to fentanyl-laced marijuana, official says

Fear mongering like this leads to the prescription and use of these drugs to be stigmatized. For instance, I now routinely have patients attempt to refuse fentanyl for their anesthetics because "it will kill them".
 

Marauder06

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Awesome I am glad we are talking about this.

Fentanyl is actually a rapid acting synthetic opiate that has been with increasing frequency being added to other narcotic drugs, such as heroin. Adding fentanyl to cocaine has the same idea of a Jaeger bomb, or a 4-loko. Mix an upper and a downer... It also allows a strong drug to be further diluted with other additives. So less cocaine, more baking soda so to speak.

Additives to marijuana are rare. Adding something that weighs almost nothing, doesn't add to the street value, as it is bought and sold via weight. Many of the big scary stories about someone "ODing" on fentanyl laced marijuana, later show that the marijuana itself had no fentanyl in it, calling into question the validity of the victim. People are not ashamed to smoke pot, they are ashamed of their opiate addictions.

+(This doesn't apply to anyone here)+ I often see on Facebook and other social media, folks talking about fentanyl and its associated problems. They routinely point out the laced marijuana, and the police officer contact OD's in the same posts. It is almost impossible for the latter to happen. The former, after initial hysteria subsides, is shown to likely not have happened either. Dozens of CT overdoses were falsely linked to fentanyl-laced marijuana, official says

Fear mongering like this leads to the prescription and use of these drugs to be stigmatized. For instance, I now routinely have patients attempt to refuse fentanyl for their anesthetics because "it will kill them".
Thank you for explaining that. So with regard to the part I bolded above, do you think it's unlikely that the two people mentioned in the article about the West Point cadets "ODd while trying to give CPR?"

IIRC, when I was in the 160th we had painkiller lollipops in our flight vests when we were deployed, and I want to say they were fentanyl lollipops. They were a controlled item. Does that sound right? I never had the need to take one and as a support guy I didn't spend a lot of time digging around in my flight vest so I'm not 100% on that.
 

TLDR20

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Thank you for explaining that. So with regard to the part I bolded above, do you think it's unlikely that the two people mentioned in the article about the West Point cadets "ODd while trying to give CPR?"

IIRC, when I was in the 160th we had painkiller lollipops in our flight vests when we were deployed, and I want to say they were fentanyl lollipops. They were a controlled item. Does that sound right? I never had the need to take one and as a support guy I didn't spend a lot of time digging around in my flight vest so I'm not 100% on that.

I don’t have all the facts, but it seems extremely unlikely that that happened. CPR should be air blowing into the body, and transdermal absorption is terrible with Fentanyl.

Yes fentanyl lollipops are an effective POI pain reliever.


Here is a great position statement from the experts:
https://www.acmt.net/_Library/Positions/Fentanyl_PPE_Emergency_Responders_.pdf
 
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TLDR20

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So I honestly cannot find a single verified lab confirmed case of marijuana laced with Fentanyl in the US.. I’m not saying people do not do it. The single case of this that was supposedly confirmed was found to be contamination. There are tons of anecdotal stories of it happening, and people saying they had only smoked marijuana. I am not saying it is impossible, just that when the drugs are actually tested it hasn't been proven.

Finding two drugs in the system and then the patient saying “I only smoked pot” doesn’t really cut it. To me this has the same tone of people cautioning parents to be on the lookout for "edibles in the candy bin" at Halloween time.

I am really interested in this, and probably spent more time looking today than I should have.
 

Chopstick

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FWIW field tests have been showing the combination for awhile. As I had posted in the other thread, it seems we have had it here in my area for some time. We had a flurry in the clinic those days of people flocking in attempting to attain medical marijuana. As I noted, our particular clinic didn't advocate for nor prescribe medical marijuana. Instead we simply referred them to an entity that did.



https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...d-in-connection-with-fentanyl-laced-marijuana

The person told police that they had smoked marijuana and had not taken any opioids. Officers tested the patient’s marijuana and found it contained fentanyl, prompting them to warn the public.


Superintendent, health experts warn after Fentanyl and THC found in vaping device at North Scott High School

ELDRIDGE, Iowa (KWQC) - North Scott Superintendent Joe Stutting confirms a vaping device with THC and fentanyl was found at North Scott High School on Thursday.

In a statement sent out to parents, the school says, “vape devices across the country are being laced with fentanyl and local authorities have reported an increase of laced devices in the Quad Cities area.”

Stutting says a field test of the liquid inside the vaping device shows THC, the active ingredient in cannabis, and fentanyl were discovered. A lab is confirming the results.

The school says they’re seeing more vaping within their schools and want to make families aware of the “potentially fatal ingredient” that’s recently been found in the device.
 

TLDR20

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FWIW field tests have been showing the combination for awhile. As I had posted in the other thread, it seems we have had it here in my area for some time. We had a flurry in the clinic those days of people flocking in attempting to attain medical marijuana. As I noted, our particular clinic didn't advocate for nor prescribe medical marijuana. Instead we simply referred them to an entity that did.



https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...d-in-connection-with-fentanyl-laced-marijuana




Superintendent, health experts warn after Fentanyl and THC found in vaping device at North Scott High School

Great links.

From what I have read today, many of these field tests are later found to be contamination. Really interesting reading if you are interested but police field testing is basically garbage.

How a $2 Roadside Drug Test Sends Innocent People to Jail (Published 2016)

understanding this is an old citation)

Also note in both those articles they were going to wait on lab results to confirm. The story ends there. Again, I’d just like to see a lab confirmed positive test.
 

TLDR20

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Just to play devils advocate. You are an opiate user, you overdose and someone had to call the police. You tell them you only used marijuana. They use a kit that is notoriously awful to “test the substance”. It shows a faint positive, so boom, it is now laced with fentanyl.

You get narcan and it works! Yay life! Marijuana possession isn’t even a misdemeanor while fentanyl possession is a felony? What are you copping to?
 

Chopstick

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In the cases in Washington County, I can attest that the autopsy reports listed fentanyl and marijuana as being present in at least 2 of the victims. Regardless of the method they got there, together or separate, those substances were present and listed as contributing to cause of death. Dead is dead. :(
 

TLDR20

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In the cases in Washington County, I can attest that the autopsy reports listed fentanyl and marijuana as being present in at least 2 of the victims. Regardless of the method they got there, together or separate, those substances were present and listed as contributing to cause of death. Dead is dead. :(

There I agree with you. Fentanyl is a gnarly drug. I give it almost every day, and I can tell you, at the right dose it will stop you from breathing, for a while. Two drugs on an autopsy do not tell the whole story though. Polypharmacy is a large issue, and many of these drug abusers are using amphetamines, opiates, marijuana, and etoh.
 

Grunt

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I know a lot of marijuana users that stick with marijuana only. However, those that use meth, coke, opiates, etc., tend to use any and everything they can get their hands on. Addiction - especially drugs - is a killer that many don't understand.
 

SpitfireV

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Fentanyl is, I would suggest but I haven't seen any reporting on it, to make the supplies (regardless of quality) go further since it's more time consuming to make heroin or cocaine so why not pad it out with something that gives another high that is cheaper and easier to manufacture (which is generally an order from China).

Just to play devils advocate. You are an opiate user, you overdose and someone had to call the police. You tell them you only used marijuana. They use a kit that is notoriously awful to “test the substance”. It shows a faint positive, so boom, it is now laced with fentanyl.

You get narcan and it works! Yay life! Marijuana possession isn’t even a misdemeanor while fentanyl possession is a felony? What are you copping to?
NIK? I don't think we even use those anymore or least I haven't seen any around. We've got a (I think it's called) a spectrum analyser, fires a laser and tells you what it is. Pretty cool kit. Police are very jealous of us, which is nice.
 

TLDR20

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FWIW field tests have been showing the combination for awhile. As I had posted in the other thread, it seems we have had it here in my area for some time. We had a flurry in the clinic those days of people flocking in attempting to attain medical marijuana. As I noted, our particular clinic didn't advocate for nor prescribe medical marijuana. Instead we simply referred them to an entity that did.



https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...d-in-connection-with-fentanyl-laced-marijuana




Superintendent, health experts warn after Fentanyl and THC found in vaping device at North Scott High School
Should we fear fentanyl-laced marijuana? - The Boston Globe

The link above is directly related to the first link in your post
 

Chopstick

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I just recently started watching "To Catch A Smuggler" on National Geographic. It is a real eye opener for me. The program touches on many types of smuggling (antiquities, knock off goods, human trafficking) but by far the focus is illicit drugs. The methods used and sheer volume of the drugs being smuggled is really quite disturbing. I also can't comprehend that people will take things that most likely have been brought into the country through someone's alimentary tract.
 

SpitfireV

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I just recently started watching "To Catch A Smuggler" on National Geographic. It is a real eye opener for me. The program touches on many types of smuggling (antiquities, knock off goods, human trafficking) but by far the focus is illicit drugs. The methods used and sheer volume of the drugs being smuggled is really quite disturbing. I also can't comprehend that people will take things that most likely have been brought into the country through someone's alimentary tract.

From experience, if you can think of it (concealment wise) someone has tried it. Obviously I don't condone them doing it but sometimes you have to nod and acknowledge it was a bloody good concealment.
 

Dimethylamine

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So a week ago, the House approved for federal decriminalization of cannabis, and now we wait for it to go through the Senate. From reading, they tried to do this in 2020, but the Senate ignored it, so that might be the same case now. If this does go through, I'd imagine the military will be slow to even consider it. The military isn't known for being fast at being socially progressive.

Do you think the military will one day allow it? Will it be harmful to the ranks? How will commanders deal with it?

I'm imagining a scenario where it is legal in the ranks, that commanders will have to have very tough policies from the get go to set a strong precedence. IE, smoking areas will be even more strict than garrison/motorpool rules, no consumption 24 hours from live fire, 1 cigarette limit, etc. Almost like alcohol but more strict. I predict a drop in alcoholism, but impaired driving under alcohol dropping, but under marijuana would increase. We saw an increase in impaired driving when cannabis was legalized here, but that was a short spike that eventually hit equilibrium after a few months.
 
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