The Military Pistol Training (M9)

[Rabid Badger]

Dry training, either moving the trigger, drawing from the holster, transitions, reloading, and correcting a stoppage, is the best training you can do. However, the person who is doing the dry training has to want to get better. The army thinks it’s a lack of understanding with the younger generation, “the video game soldiers” so the army gets al these new cool computer training aids. But the marksmanship is still poor; it’s not the new equipment. It’s the lazy fucking soldiers who suck the life out of the rest of the unit.

Borrowed this from another thread here on SS. It's relevant and pretty much makes J.A.B's point.....

Gun Fighters: Are you the Predator or the Victim?

Only You can Decide!

D. Kellerman U.S. Special Forces ODA 2091 SE Afghanistan 2003-2004, Gunfighters Proving Ground

1. A gunfighter has chosen to step into the arena, don’t tread lightly. This is a "no shit" situation. Training instructors will not be there to coach you. There won’t be a re-test or a warm-up.

2. 20 minutes of quality dry or live fire training every week beats 4 hours of firing hundreds of rounds into paper once or twice a month.

3. Either you have it or you don’t. If you don’t, get a new job or stay in the office.

4. Confidence, dominance, and well placed shots will allow you to live. Never rely on having more ammo. Treat each magazine as if it were your only one.

5. A perfect range score only means that you take too much time to shoot. Vanity kills in real life shootouts! That perfect score will only get you a nice certificate. Speed and reasonably good accuracy are what allows you to live.

6. A good shooting stance will always seem right during a training course, but will never be perfect in real life. Get over it, fight through it, and get the shot off…now!

7. MINDSET wins the fight…and DOMINATION of the situation deals death!

8. Stand your ground, but take cover if needed. Moving away or backwards can make you a victim.

9. Advance on the threat to gain the psychological advantage. Victims run, predators engage! In case you haven’t figured it out yet, you should be a predator!

10. If you cannot choose what kind of gun to bring to a gunfight, but given the chance, bring one you can shoot well along with a lot of friends…or just say fuck it and don’t show up.

11. Shoot first, shoot fast, shoot well, then communicate and/or move. Unless your partner is an idiot, he or she will know what is going down.

12. Accuracy is relative. No person can outshoot a quality gun. Most "out of the box" quality guns will always be more accurate than you can possibly shoot. Train with and trust your gear!

13. When your gun runs dry, use everything available to your advantage. Do not give up, ever!

14. Use cover or concealment as the situation dictates, but remember when hiding behind cover, you are not DOMINATING the situation.

15. Keep both goddamn eyes open; forget the "academy" firearm instructors. You ain’t shooting for a perfect score…you are shooting to live!

16. If hit, ignore it until you can render self aid, you probably won’t even feel it if you are "into" the fight.

17. Decide to be AGGRESSIVE enough, QUICKLY enough. Indecisiveness and will cause you to die.

18. Remember, there is ALWAYS somebody faster….but age and treachery beat youth and vigor 9 out of 10 times!

19. Some will tell you that "winning" is the goal. Wrong! "Living" is the goal. Discretion is the better part of valor.

20. Be prepared to write a report justifying what and why you did.

I especially like # 18.......I'm an old (46 ain't old) evil motherfucker when it comes to living or dying..... ;);)

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

RB who wrote this? The man needs to be on my contact list ;) I have got some brain picking I want to do...


These two sum it up pretty good!

3. Either you have it or you don’t. If you don’t, get a new job or stay in the office.

4. Confidence, dominance, and well placed shots will allow you to live. Never rely on having more ammo. Treat each magazine as if it were your only one.

 

[Rabid Badger]

RB who wrote this? The man needs to be on my contact list ;) I have got some brain picking I want to do...

These two sum it up pretty good!

3. Either you have it or you don’t. If you don’t, get a new job or stay in the office.

4. Confidence, dominance, and well placed shots will allow you to live. Never rely on having more ammo. Treat each magazine as if it were your only one.

D. Kellerman U.S. Special Forces ODA 2091 SE Afghanistan 2003-2004, Gunfighters Proving Ground

Which goes back to quantiified qualified dry fire ALONG WITH range fire make a good shooter....not max cap magazines and slay and spray privates with NO training....

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

D. Kellerman U.S. Special Forces ODA 2091 SE Afghanistan 2003-2004, Gunfighters Proving Ground

Which goes back to quantiified qualified dry fire ALONG WITH range fire make a good shooter....not max cap magazines and slay and spray privates with NO training....

Well it’s simple if you can’t be safe, load, reload, correct a stoppage, draw from the holster, or move the trigger with out disrupting the sights with out the use of ammo. Then you sure as hell won’t be able to with ammo.

Brings me back to my dad teaching me how to fire a .22 Cal bolt rifle. He made me dryfire 5 shot’s prior to firing 1 round; I would have to call the shot (using the clock method) for every shot dry or live. As a kid I hated having to dryfire 5 times to every one bullet down range, but I loved when that one bullet hit where I was aiming :)

 

[Rabid Badger]

A good instructor can have a bad student keyholing in 3 mags.....but with a lot of dry fire...

Front site front site front site, draw from the holster, 1-4 drills, 3-4 de-cock drills, transition from the M4 to sidearm...all dry...and have a fairly proficient shooter on the firing line when he finally loads bullets in the gun.....

Putting it all together at the end of the day, mag in the M4, drop the magazine, pull one from the redi-mag, load mag, M4 malfunction/runz dry, transition to sidearm, pistol runs dry, drop mag, rapid mag change....

then do it again..and again...and again.....when the shit hits....it will all come back real quick....and all from muscle memory....

All that I just described could be accomplished with a decent instructor to student ratio (1-3) in 1 day...

I find the statement 'We can't train, we don't have any bullets' a weak excuse from a weak instructor/leader.

Not saying this about anyone here, not my intent. My intent is to broaden the 'training thought process' for BRM/MMS.

Training can be done anywhere/anytime you have a weapon and a magazine...empty or loaded....

It doesn't have to go 'bang' to train..

:2c::2c:

 

[AWP]

I know a Kellerman. I hope the author of the above isn't this guy:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1719315/posts

 

[Rabid Badger]

Damn those 'Lords of War'!!

He was knee deep into some bad shit, eh??

Small country invasion stuff there.....Wishn I had some 'o that stuff...legally, of course.....

Doesn't affect the comments 1-20, tho..those are dead on....

Sux to be him right now... :cool::cool:

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I know a Kellerman. I hope the author of the above isn't this guy:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1719315/posts

Damn that can not be good:doh:

 

[JBS]

Excellent thread, gents.

Thanks for all the knowledge shared here.

About the magazine issues: I can 2nd Razor Baghdad's mention of using a dremel tool on the mags.

You have to do the same thing on the front leading upper edge of them as well, or else Luger ammo tends to catch just behind the ball when chambering. The edge of the cartridge will catch on the magazine, as the slide moves forward, and it will cause a failure to feed.

For me:

Pros:
1. Accuracy
2. Reliability (rarely had any kind of failure-to-feed or failure-to-fire over thousands of rounds).
3. Easy field strip


Con's:
1. I could always stand more stopping power. Higher-velocity ammo can compensate, but comes with a price- including a lot of extra carbon, or bits of plastic/synthetic material for those who use specialized ammo. That debris can cause FFF or other malfunctions.

2. Could always use a better magazine release.

3. More magazine capacity would be nice too.

 

[8'Duece]

Seems Kellerman just couldn't keep his hands out of the cookie jar.

You go from SF Warrior to felon criminal all in one fail swoop.

 

[WillBrink]

Seems Kellerman just couldn't keep his hands out of the cookie jar.

You go from SF Warrior to felon criminal all in one fail swoop.

Well of course some have been known to be a bit of both I recall...:eek:

 

[phantom1984]

I love my Beretta 9-Mil

I relize i not being in the military havn't put my Beretta through the rough use as soldiers do but i have put it through some serious stuff. Dirt,mud, rain and a lot of constant firing. I have put thousands of rounds through it over an intire weekend with out cleaning and it performs better than any weapon i have ever fired. I have small hands (almost like a childs) I have Hogue style grips and for me the safty and mag release are very comfortable. I have owned a colt 1911 , Glocks , Smith and Wessons and i wouldnt trade my Beretta for any othe them . I carry it conceiled everyday (I have my CCW)and it in the the right holster works real well. I carry with the safty off and with all the Beretta's safty's and practice I have never had a problem.

 

[8'Duece]

I wanted to bump this thread.

I like to dry fire every day with my carry gun (Sig P228 9mm) I dry fire in both the double action and single action mode. I generally do the drills RB mentioned from the holster, slice the pie, and I concentrate on where my front sight is during the trigger pull. My forearm strength seems to be weak these day's but I'm using a vice exerciser to build up my wrist and forearm strength.

Am I moving the sight ? If I am I go back to the basics with grip and body mechanics. If you where to look in my window you'd think I was crazy.