Transgenders Free to Enlist Starting 2018

[Scubadew]

My gripe with allowing trans people to serve is along those lines. I make this argument to my most liberal of friends: they have a preexisting condition. We keep people out of the service with pins in their legs, but we should be expected to take someone with potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical liability? That argument tends to be one people don’t think about.

This. 100% agree.

 

[Kakashi66223]

I guess it'll come down to how DoD defines transgender in instruction. Are they going to be segregated by gender identification or biological sex? Meaning, if a recruit is biologically of male sex but identifies as female gender but wishes to abstain from a sex change will they be placed in a male or female compartment?

Quoted from, Commander's Handbook for Transgender Policy Implementation.
which is 72 pages and is fairly easy to read.

DOD in lieu of this handbook defines Transgender service member as:

A Service member who has received a medical diagnosis indicating that gender transition is medically necessary, including any Service member who intends to begin transition, is undergoing transition, or has completed transition and is stable in the preferred gender. Page 12

-Medically necessary:​

Those health care services or supplies necessary to prevent, diagnose, or treat an illness, injury, condition, disease, or its symptoms and that meet accepted standards of care. Page 12

-Stable in the preferred gender:​

Medical care identified or approved by a military medical provider in a documented medical treatment plan is complete, no functional limitations or complications persist, and the individual is not experiencing clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. Continuing medical care, including but not limited to cross-sex hormone-therapy, may be required to maintain a state of stability. Page 12

Gender dysphoria:

A medical diagnosis that refers to distress that some transgender individuals experience due to a mismatch between their gender and their sex assigned at birth.

​

Interesting notes I will paraphrase(or quote).

Page 37- down range and lost meds, go kick some rocks. It's not life threatening.​

Page 38- they don't feel comfortable around others, find new billets.(which is weird they went thru a process to more socially accepted.)​

Page 39- transgender do not get out of deployment, they either finish treatment or dont, part of pre-deployment.​

Page 45- transgender requests are up to Commanders,whose responsibility is to ensure mission completion, if allowed.​

- Considers the needs of the command (including deployment, operations, training, exercise schedules, critical skills availability, morale and welfare, and good order and discipline of the unit.)

​

There are other considerations that need to be planned on, State laws.

I'm bored and don't mind typing, but transcribing this hand book is tediously eating into my soul. This is about as far as I go today

 

[ThunderHorse]

All elective surgeries are at Commander's discretion. When I got PRK, the man had to approve. And it should remain that way.

 

[CDG]

I think the military has quite a large number of issues more deserving of time, money, energy, and resources than the issue of trying to figure out how to enlist and accommodate transgender personnel. What's the return on investment here? It's just not worth it.

 

[The Hate Ape]

My gripe with allowing trans people to serve is along those lines. I make this argument to my most liberal of friends: they have a preexisting condition. We keep people out of the service with pins in their legs, but we should be expected to take someone with potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical liability? That argument tends to be one people don’t think about.

So if there's no practical benefit to the military, the military--hence the taxpayers--shouldn't have to pay for trans surgery. That is where I would draw the line.

Whole-heartedly agree with both statements. The end state is the military functioning as a warfighting organization with a business mentality: recruiting an all volunteer service ensures we are able to screen candidates for successful implementation into the military at the benefit of the military first, not the individual. That is why I say we are a business-fashioned organization tailored to warfighting and not some non-profit charity.

I also like to think about how we all Love the idea of universal service ala Starship Troopers, I am a big fan of that as well.

Being a Space Marine would almost bring me more happiness than being a father of two beautiful children, but if I could shower with Denise Richards I might actually just say "life complete."

 

[TLDR20]

Whole-heartedly agree with both statements. The end state is the military functioning as a warfighting organization with a business mentality: recruiting an all volunteer service ensures we are able to screen candidates for successful implementation into the military at the benefit of the military first, not the individual. That is why I say we are a business-fashioned organization tailored to warfighting and not some non-profit charity.


Being a Space Marine would almost bring me more happiness than being a father of two beautiful children, but if I could shower with Denise Richards I might actually just say "life complete."

They were Mobile Infantry friend...

 

[ThunderHorse]

Being a Space Marine would almost bring me more happiness than being a father of two beautiful children, but if I could shower with Denise Richards I might actually just say "life complete."

That was Dina Meyer, she's hot too.

 

[The Hate Ape]

They were Mobile Infantry friend...

Look, I don't want your recitation of factual information destroying my dreams of becoming a Space Marine.

That was Dina Meyer, she's hot too.

That goes for you too...

 

[8482farm]

Look, I don't want your recitation of factual information destroying my dreams of becoming a Space Marine.


That goes for you too...

Are you just going to overlook the fact that you’ll be showering with Johnny Rico as well?

 

[The Hate Ape]

Are you just going to overlook the fact that you’ll be showering with Johnny Rico as well?

Silly rabbit, I AM johnny rico...

My friends just call me JR though

 

[DocIllinois]

How are we missing Rue McClanahan in all of this Starship talk?

In other news:

DOJ appeals ruling that transgender people are free to enlist in US military


"The government seeks a stay pending appeal of the portion of the injunction concerning accessions," government lawyers said in their brief filed late Monday. They argued that implementing "a significant change" to military standards for the composition of the armed forces even before a court decides the merits of the case would "place extraordinary burdens on our armed forces and may harm military readiness."

 

[x SF med]

..."place extraordinary burdens on our armed forces and may harm military readiness."

Um... lowering of standards to force inclusion into Combat Arms does the same thing.... where the hell were the legal beagles when that shit went down? I don't care who you are, what you look like or what your preference is, meet and uphold the standards, train to task-condition-standard, and be there when your team needs you, able to do your job and/or get a buddy out of the way if a casualty occurs. If you can't hump the ruck, don't saddle up with those who can, you'll get everyone killed.

rant over.

 

[The Hate Ape]

Um... lowering of standards to force inclusion into Combat Arms does the same thing.... where the hell were the legal beagles when that shit went down? I don't care who you are, what you look like or what your preference is, meet and uphold the standards, train to task-condition-standard, and be there when your team needs you, able to do your job and/or get a buddy out of the way if a casualty occurs. If you can't hump the ruck, don't saddle up with those who can, you'll get everyone killed.

rant over.

Maybe the legal beagles saw this as an opportunity to recruit women (formerly men) that would actually pass the infantry officer's course or a SOF selection. We can go down the rabbit-hole for singular events or their validity, but the truth is, science and physics says that most women are not built for performing the same functions/activities their male counterparts are assessed on.

Jokes aside, the disruption/standards/whatever argument you want has been used in the case for minorities being authorized into service, women, homosexuals... etc. The biggest difference with this scenario compared to the previously mentioned is that it requires the military to essentially buy-in with the recruit, at a significantly high-cost. Whether or not the recruit wants to go forward with medical procedure is up to them, but the opportunity by my understanding appears that it must be afforded to the candidate. That requires monetary alignment and would hinder the budget for sure.

 

[Devildoc]

I see both sides and agree with both sides. I think it is a complicated issue with no easy fix.

This is where I am. My soul says it's just not a good idea--for all the reasons mentioned in this thread--but I also see the logic/validity in the 'pro' arguments.

 

[Il Duce]

This is where I am. My soul says it's just not a good idea--for all the reasons mentioned in this thread--but I also see the logic/validity in the 'pro' arguments.

I am ambivalent as well. But one thing I'm sure of - court order is not a recipe for successful implementation of just about anything. I think it's one of the things SECDEF Mattis and others recognized early on. If we're going to end up doing this let's do it on our terms that make sense. You have far less room to maneuver when it is being foisted on you.