U.S. Officer jailed for joining French Foreign Legion

It should be a question of deterrence. Unfortunately, I don't think it's much of a deterrent when you treat far worse individuals with a slap on the wrist. I think that's the issue here. Justice HAS to be consistent, in my opinion. Punishments need to be relative, need to match up, to be fair. You can't apply the full force of the law to some but not others. The same system has to apply to everyone, whether there's pressure from liberal campaigners or whatnot.
 
It doesn't matter if it is deterrence, justice, or "other." The guy is a deserter and just about every justice system will not be fair despite our desire to the contrary.

He willingly deserted. In time of war. It doesn't matter if grandma was sick or he was bored, he deserted. We complain about a lack of accountability in today's society, erosion of the Army Values, and an erosion of standards in general so hammering this guy shouldn't even be a discussion. I don't care if he deserted and killed UBL, went to the moon, cured cancer, or anything else......he deserted. His trial should be over before lunch is served.
 
I'm sure none of us disagree that he should be punished and that his case is fairly clear cut. It's just the hypocrisy of how other cases have been handled that leaves me a bitter taste.

In an ideal world, everyone should take the punishment they deserve. But if you're going to start cutting slack to special snowflakes, it's going to tarnish all your other cases because of the inherent disproportion. If I were looking at it 100% unbiased, then yeah, he deserves this. Though that means other shit needs to be fixed -- but I'm practically sure that it won't be.
 
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A few things. He didn't desert, he went UA (unauthorized absence). Didn't he turn himself in? Desertion is the act of leaving your unit without the intention of returning. It may be a small point but that's what law is. Yes he should be punished but does he need to be hammered with a four year prison sentence?

Why do we crush this guy and then plant a rose garden for Bergdahl? Sgt Jenkins was a deserter that straight up defected to North Korea and we gave him 24 days after he turned himself in forty years later. We are all over the map here. I think intentions do matter here when it comes to punishment. Give him a dishonorable and no more than a year in prison. That's how long his deployment would have been anyway.
 
Wasn't there some other guy who decided not to deploy out of Hawaii and we gave him a slap on the wrist? No punishment? I'm sure someone can google fu some more examples.
 
He's a commissioned officer and I think he should be held to a higher standard. The system is broken, but continuing broken policies won't provide the change necessary. At some point we have to turn the corner or continue our descent into mediocrity or even outright failure.
 
Freefalling said:
He's a commissioned officer and I think he should be held to a higher standard. The system is broken, but continuing broken policies won't provide the change necessary. At some point we have to turn the corner or continue our descent into mediocrity or even outright failure.
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He basically "self selected" as a toxic leader and sentenced himself to hard labor in France. FRANCE!!! Hasn't he been punished enough? :p
 
Freefalling said:
He's a commissioned officer and I think he should be held to a higher standard. The system is broken, but continuing broken policies won't provide the change necessary. At some point we have to turn the corner or continue our descent into mediocrity or even outright failure.
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I thought the guy from Hawaii was an officer also?
 
I just don't think 4 years is excessive for walking away from your sworn duty, your responsibility, your men, your fellow soldiers and your country. It is, after all, one year less than he gave to France.

Bergdahl's case should merit a much harsher sentence...but probably won't. The administration has to justify the release of 5 Taliban in exchange for somebody worthy of the exchange and the risks incurred by forces engaged in that effort, ergo, Bergdahl has to be a misunderstood victim not a criminal. My 2c.

http://www.stripes.com/news/us/resu...th-desertion-charge-or-300k-back-pay-1.320202
 
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Dame said:
An ally in name at least. The French are always looking to steal technology. I'm thinking his choice of country may have something to do with the punishment.
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@EAL92 , are you really going to hate this comment and not offer up some commentary of your own? There was nothing said that is not founded in truth- you may hate the comment, but it's the fault of your own flaws.

To you other folks who think it to be too severe of a punishment, if this would've happened during a declared war it could be punishable by death.
 
I think the punishment is a bit on the harsh side, but you cannot take into account where he went. The case must be viewed as him leaving, missing a movement, and then returning four years later. As a commissioned officer, you are held to a higher standard than an enlisted service member. It is of my opinion that the courts viewed it that way and partially made an example of him. If he did not like the job he wound up with, he should have reclassed at the proper time to whatever met his hearts desire. The Army (and every other branch) has multiple opportunities to serve in a unit that would allow you to be cold, muddy, wet, and straight up in the suck. If he decided the Army was not for him, he should have done his six years (or whatever is required) and then joined the Legion. He's even admitted to guilt by saying, “I feel really bad for the pain I put on my family, the disruption to my unit, but I don’t regret what I did — any of it, good or bad." He saw the Legion as a quick fix, and now he must suffer the consequences for the actions he took.
 
He got a fair sentence.
I worked with a guy who deserted the Army many years ago (did not know it).
He tried to be a good samaritan, and the outstanding warrant came up during the investigation.
he went to Ft Carson and rejoined the unit he deserted from, they made him finish his enlistment and Court Martialed his ass 45 days prior to ETS. He spent 30 days in jail and then got his General (Honorable (?)) discharge.
They could have sent Lt Dipshit back to Ft Dumm, waited until 30 days prior to the scheduled promotion, then CM'd his ass (I would have).
IIRC West Point Grads get a 5 year commitment upon commissioning, so the board essentially gave him the rest of his commitment behind bars.
He'll be out in a year anyway.
 
SOTGWarrior said:
I think the punishment is a bit on the harsh side, but you cannot take into account where he went. The case must be viewed as him leaving, missing a movement, and then returning four years later. As a commissioned officer, you are held to a higher standard than an enlisted service member. It is of my opinion that the courts viewed it that way and partially made an example of him. If he did not like the job he wound up with, he should have reclassed at the proper time to whatever met his hearts desire. The Army (and every other branch) has multiple opportunities to serve in a unit that would allow you to be cold, muddy, wet, and straight up in the suck. If he decided the Army was not for him, he should have done his Five years (fixed it for ya) and then joined the Legion. He's even admitted to guilt by saying, “I feel really bad for the pain I put on my family, the disruption to my unit, but I don’t regret what I did — any of it, good or bad." He saw the Legion as a quick fix, and now he must suffer the consequences for the actions he took.
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The portion I bolded: that is part of the problem. There is no way possible he "wound up with" that Medical platoon leader job. This is part of my problem with the guy and his desertion to the FFL. This is how it went down: He's one of the top guys in his class, picks med service corps (MSC) as his first choice and gets it because again, he is one of the top guys in his class. We have branch briefs, summer training, exposure to officers and instructors from all branches of service, more branch briefs, decision points, discussions with classmates over the entire four years there. The Army just didn't throw down a card saying, "here ya go sport, take it or leave it". He CHOSE this job field, knowing full and well what it DIDN'T entail (e.g. infantry & combat arms 'embrace-the-suck-put-myself-through-pain-hooah-lifestyle').

Four years in jail is fair.
 
I think this issue does bring up valid points though in how punishments are handed out. There needs to be a guideline by which punishments are issued and followed, and they should not just be given by the tip of dart thrown at a bunch of balloons and whatever punishment falls out of the balloon is the punishment that is given.
 
SOTGWarrior said:
I think this issue does bring up valid points though in how punishments are handed out. There needs to be a guideline by which punishments are issued and followed, and they should not just be given by the tip of dart thrown at a bunch of balloons and whatever punishment falls out of the balloon is the punishment that is given.
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Generally the board is given an upper and lower punishment option. The board members debate if required, and generally end up with a compromise sentence.
I sat on one board and we gave a very lenient sentence, based on the command's negligence (we were sending the soon to be relieved Group Commander a message).
 
Etype, the hate was for the beginning of the comment, my silence was to avoid a possible shit storm. I do think the man needs to be punished, but the statement saying that the French "An ally in name at least" is completely stupid and completely disrespectful to their dead. Also," The French are always looking to steal technology". I'm no expert in that matter, but if you're going to accuse someone throw some proof up and make sure it's not hypocritical. So there you go that is my reason for the hate, I think it was a completely retarded comment that did not even pertain to the discussion.
 
EAL92 said:
Etype, the hate was for the beginning of the comment, my silence was to avoid a possible shit storm. I do think the man needs to be punished, but the statement saying that the French "An ally in name at least" is completely stupid and completely disrespectful to their dead. Also," The French are always looking to steal technology". I'm no expert in that matter, but if you're going to accuse someone throw some proof up and make sure it's not hypocritical. So there you go that is my reason for the hate, I think it was a completely retarded comment that did not even pertain to the discussion.
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First off, I appreciate your response, that being said-
Disrespectful to their dead? The 10,000 they lost in the Revolutionary War? That was the last time they helped us. Of the 416,000 we lost in WWII, a good portion of those were lost in France fighting an enemy they couldn't even begin to confront. Any involvement they had in Iraq or Afghanistan has been minimal/non-committal. In all seriousness, we probably would have been much better off without the French, Germans, Italians, and Emirates and their "combat tourism."
 
Revolutionary war.... pretty significant help there regardless of whatever their motives were to help establish independence. I'm fairly sure the lads back then appreciated the money and resources that were lent out. I respect the hell out of those 416,000( part of that was also the pacific campaign) lost, but it wasn't only the French we were helping, more like most of Europe. I understand you're point and frustration as a warfighter, but considering all of the bitching we did to try to get help from NATO and the nations that did not want to get involved what did we expect. Respect for the dead or wounded shouldn't be gaffed off because of a high or low number, the men on the ground did what they were ordered to and what their countries asked them to do to the best of their capabilities( Yes these NATO troops might have done a substandard job by US standard, but hey shit not all countries have the attitude, willingness or resources that we do). Not every nation that is an ally has to fight for the interest of another(however frustrating it might seem). The result is that men/women fought and died and that should be respected on all sides. I gave that hate because I thought it was generally a stupid fucking comment. This side conversation is irrelevant to the main topic and if you wish to discuss this further please PM. To redirect the conversation back to where it should be, I think the Lieutenant has some balls for doing what he did and he probably served with honor, however he still left his unit and country during a time of war and broke his oath as a serviceman. That carries it's consequences and now that he came back he'll have to face them. I think the man knew that and he seems to want to face the repercussions of his actions.
 

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Mods, please forgive me. Not trying to hijack.
My comment was not based on anything that happened in the past. It was based on cyber and tech relations between the countries right now.
I did not list examples so as NOT to hijack the thread. There was no point in arguing. You either know this stuff because you have an interest in it or you don't cuz you don't.
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/05/france-intellectual-property-theft-107020.html
Another example below.
One of the members of the critical French tech group Reflets.info, with which Epelboin is involved, tweeted: "Cool Story Bro: Chinese hackers are now american"

“At the time, Republicans/Sarkozy were in charge,” he said, “and the bad guys where Chinese. The message was: the digital world is dangerous, and the iconic bad guy is a Chinese hacker working for the secret services. Now, the Democrat/Socialists are in power, and going after Google and Amazon, accused of killing the press and the content business, and not paying their taxes, so the bad guy is obviously American, now. Still, the rest of the story is the same: the digital world is dangerous.”

It is not just the timing and the politicking that make the accusations unlikely. The French state IT systems are such a mess that “basically...(they) can be penetrated by a college student.”

France, Epelboin said, is heading for a “very dark digital age” in France. “The US is clearly becoming this evil liberal, if not libertarian, figure that the current government wants to protect us from.”

Epelboin added, tongue-in-cheek, “If this goes on, you American guys should be ready to save our sorry asses in approximately five years. Normandy, D-Day, you know... Like usual :D.” For the sake of the Republic, let’s hope not.
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http://www.dailydot.com/news/us-france-hacking-flame-malware-sarkozy/
 

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