Actually, the reports are that he took guns from his mother- an upstanding citizen, law abiding person who was also a schoolteacher, and owned them all within the constraints of the law. So if these reports are to believed, and if they are accurate, there is literally NO conceivable law which could have prevented this guy from getting his hands on guns and doing what he did. He didn't even own the guns to begin with, so passing a law preventing him from buying - or getting his hands on guns would be have had no effect, since he stole the guns from a legal owner.
United States & Gun Control discussion.
- Thread starter Diamondback 2/2
- Start date
Why are some asking for stricter gun control laws? Simple: people fear what they don't understand.
Our country is going to make an emotional decision in the next year, one with devestating results to our personal freedoms and how we see gov't. "Pro gun" will become a negative label, and any of us with that label must obviously want more violence to occur. We will forget our country's own history, to say nothing of human nature, when we make this decision. The media will help lead the charge and our "representatives" in Washington, fearful of losing votes, will allow it. Logic and reason were killed in that classroom and deep down every gun hater in this country is grateful for what happened. "This is a tragedy but it shows America that our gun culture is evil". Sympathy followed by "I can fix this if you'll just give away some of your freedom. Just a little, it won't hurt."
Pro-gun arguments will be defeated with a simple "Whargarbl Connecticut school shooting!" and that will suffice. The fence-sitters will follow their emotions and the ambivilent will allow it to happen because they won't wish to stand against massive public opinion.
History, logic, and your personal rights won't matter. Our fear will see to that.
Pro-gun arguments will be defeated with a simple "Whargarbl Connecticut school shooting!" and that will suffice. The fence-sitters will follow their emotions and the ambivilent will allow it to happen because they won't wish to stand against massive public opinion.
History, logic, and your personal rights won't matter. Our fear will see to that.
Sadly this may be true
Chewing my way through an unusually tasty lunch by this place's standards...
I'm tired of hearing about America's "gun culture". Guns, guns, guns, guns, guns...even the NRA and other pro-gun groups are reluctant to address the real issue here, and that is our society. It sucks.
Yeah, I said that. Our society sucks and is the cause for all of this.
I know, I'm using logic and history and that won't have a place in this debate...but look at a recent period and another period everyone loves to drag out: the Cocaine wars in south Florida and the Old West. People would have you believe that this is Dodge City all over again and no one mentions Miami in the early to mid-80's, but look at both periods. Were guns the problem or was society and the environment the problem?
This generation the problem is our gun culture, but what will the next generation use as an excuse? Booze? Tried it, failed, we know this, but what will we use as an excuse in 20-30 years? Violence is up because of...TV? Books? The Internet? What?
Guns aren't letting us down, WE are letting oursleves down. WE are the problem here and no one wants to admit that, it hits too close to home. "I couldn't possible be a part of the problem! I'm a good person!"
Well, if everyone was a good person 20+ people would still be alive. We aren't and they aren't, and blaming our gun culture is a cop-out to avoid the real cause. We have met the enemy and he is us.
I'm tired of hearing about America's "gun culture". Guns, guns, guns, guns, guns...even the NRA and other pro-gun groups are reluctant to address the real issue here, and that is our society. It sucks.
Yeah, I said that. Our society sucks and is the cause for all of this.
I know, I'm using logic and history and that won't have a place in this debate...but look at a recent period and another period everyone loves to drag out: the Cocaine wars in south Florida and the Old West. People would have you believe that this is Dodge City all over again and no one mentions Miami in the early to mid-80's, but look at both periods. Were guns the problem or was society and the environment the problem?
This generation the problem is our gun culture, but what will the next generation use as an excuse? Booze? Tried it, failed, we know this, but what will we use as an excuse in 20-30 years? Violence is up because of...TV? Books? The Internet? What?
Guns aren't letting us down, WE are letting oursleves down. WE are the problem here and no one wants to admit that, it hits too close to home. "I couldn't possible be a part of the problem! I'm a good person!"
Well, if everyone was a good person 20+ people would still be alive. We aren't and they aren't, and blaming our gun culture is a cop-out to avoid the real cause. We have met the enemy and he is us.
My simple little 2 cents worth.
I fully believe that I have every right to have the freedom of choice to decide whether or not to own a gun legally.
I flat refuse to not fight to help keep this right. If it is taken away, even more rights will be eroded - and at that point, might as well move over to North Korea and be done with it.
Freefalling, you are right - our fear is to blame - it is fucking us up - well, most of us. But not all.
I fully believe that I have every right to have the freedom of choice to decide whether or not to own a gun legally.
I flat refuse to not fight to help keep this right. If it is taken away, even more rights will be eroded - and at that point, might as well move over to North Korea and be done with it.
Freefalling, you are right - our fear is to blame - it is fucking us up - well, most of us. But not all.
It's fucking up about 51% of us, judging by voting figures. Just enough to drag the rest of us through the BS.
D
Deleted member 2517
Guest
I agree with the sentiment that an AWB will only affect those lawful owners, and won't stem violence. But the arguments from Bill Maher and others just pisses me off. Maher has long argued against ending the "War on Drugs" as it is ineffective and people will always get drugs. Now he's arguing against guns, using the same arguments pro-Drug war types have for decades. The hypocrisy is mind blowing.
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I went to a gun store in NY today to purchase 50 9mm ball rounds and a storage/lock box for my car in the event I need to lock my loaded Glock 9mm in my car if I can not carry into a certain place or zone. After speaking with all the sales reps business has been picking up since the shooting.
Fixed it for you.
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This is an e-mail I got from a friend of mine today, I think it speaks volumes.
Dear friends and family,
First of all I have to say that I LOVE kids and I LOVE education. I guess that would make sense with my being a 27 year veteran 10th-12th and college educator with a Bachelor's Degree in Secondary Education, a Master's Degree in Educational Administration and a Ph.D. in Curriculum and Instruction.
Having said that I have to give my "two cents worth" regarding the media and popular culture's RESPONSE to the recent shootings in Aurora, CO, the KC Chiefs football player, and now at the elementary school in Connecticut. If I hear one more journalist or talking head say something like, "I just can't understand why something like this would happen...I can't wrap my mind around it...let's ask this secular progressive psychologist who has letters after her name (e.g. Ph.D., Ed.D., M.D., etc.) and hear what she has to say...I think I will scream (well, in fact, I already did scream while driving to my buddy on the phone!).
Let me try answering WHY this type of ugly, insane, and atrocious act occurs from a Biblical worldview:
1) Sin - I know it is an "outdated" idea that we are ALL sinful (Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.") and in desperate need of a savior especially when our humanist culture through the public educational system and popular media teaches that at the core mankind is basically good. We are being lied to! We are not "good" at heart...we have no where to look at for the source of this evil other than within.
2) Evolution - Our children (as are we) are being bombarded with the "fact" that each of us is the result of random chance and our heritage is a long line of inanimate objects, cells, amoebas, monkeys, etc. and that we are no better than anything else in creation (a.k.a. public school science classrooms, the extreme environmental movement, media, extreme animal rights activists, etc.). A famous atheist and People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) founder Ingrid Newkirk is quoted as saying "A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy." Yes!, really she did and actually believes it! We never hear that God created us in His image and the crown of His creation. He put His Holy Spirit in us as a sign of His love and special covenant with us. Even after original sin we are born with and still fight daily the desire to turn from Him and neglect Him He sent His son "while we were yet sinners" to save us from eternal damnation. We don't even hear much the child's phrase of "God don't make no junk!" anymore. Since this is where many have come to, it makes perfect sense for those who believe they have no purpose, value, or goals that matter would act out by killing others who are likewise unimportant, insignificant, and nuisances and then commit suicide. This is the logical conclusion to a world view with no basis in God.
3) Lack of personal responsibility - It is obvious that some of us are not raised in the best of homes with God-fearing parents nor are some blessed with a Bible believing church or godly friends to help keep us focused on God's will for our lives and accountable to stay on the straight and narrow. However, none of those challenges abnegate us from doing what is right. Each one of us will be held accountable for our sin and wrongdoing. Of course if God teaches one thing that the world around us says the opposite, "Oh, we need to find out what the killer went through in his life and understand him better." or "We need to see why his girlfriend broke up with him and try to make sure that doesn't happen again." Nowhere do you hear that it was evil and sinful what he did and let's redouble our efforts to teach our children God's word!
Another point here. Jesus did say in Mathew 15: 19 "From a GUN come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander." Oh, maybe that wasn't how it started and was, "Out of the heart comes evil thoughts..."
The problem we are facing is not GUNS, it's sinful PEOPLE! The solution is not GUN CONTROL through legislation it's PEOPLE CONTROL through God's word and His love for them!
4) Divorce - I know that this is a touchy subject because some of you are probably divorced but please know I am speaking the Truth in love. I am not judging those of you who had to deal with unfaithfulness or abandonment. Here I am speaking about the lies that our culture and the world around us are preaching about divorce. Our world tells us that divorce is no big deal and that children who come out of divorced families are just fine so don't worry about it if you want to leave the spouse that you committed to spend the rest of your life with for another person. We are told that if it gets tough or you just "fall out of love" with someone then go try to find "someone who will make you happy." IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU or making YOURself happy. It's about what the God who formed and fashioned us and died for us says will make us happy and that is to love Him, get to know Him on a personal basis, follow His ways, and cling to our Savior. God says "I hate divorce." (Malachi 2:16) and SO SHOULD WE!
5) Family Breakdown - In addition to divorce we also need to mention the general breakdown of the family in this country! For the first time in American history, more than 50% of all births are to single women. No fathers. No family. Again, contrary to popular culture telling us that one parent is sufficient to the needs of children, God established the family unit – both mothers and fathers – to love, nurture, discipline, and as Proverbs 22:6 says “Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it.” Something even many pastors will not remind us of these days is that in Scripture it clearly says that wives should submit to their husbands and husbands are likewise to love their wives “as Christ does the church” which by the way would mean dying for her as Jesus did! This is where we men must step forward…NOW! As a result of this healthy God-ordained relationship between one man and one woman for life, children see how their parents love and submit one to another and are much more willing to submit to their parents. These things are all part of the fingerprint of God's design and our culture tries hard to offer alternatively lifestyles that CANNOT be substituted for and WILL NOT be able to provide the same results.
Finally, in closing I have a question for you to ponder and meditate on - why all the outrage over 20 kindergarten children getting shot and killed and NOT the same level of guile, disgust, and hatred that each day in our country either a pill is taken or a knife is used to go into the womb and kill millions of babies each year?
A word of encouragement to those of you feeling like you are an alien here in our own beloved U. S. of A. because of the way things seem to be headed. Jesus prayed for us in John 17: 14 "I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world."
Christian friends, let us respond by saying: “We will go for you, Lord Jesus, and will let our light shine before men because we love our fellowman! Come with us!”
Trey
Dear friends and family,
First of all I have to say that I LOVE kids and I LOVE education. I guess that would make sense with my being a 27 year veteran 10th-12th and college educator with a Bachelor's Degree in Secondary Education, a Master's Degree in Educational Administration and a Ph.D. in Curriculum and Instruction.
Having said that I have to give my "two cents worth" regarding the media and popular culture's RESPONSE to the recent shootings in Aurora, CO, the KC Chiefs football player, and now at the elementary school in Connecticut. If I hear one more journalist or talking head say something like, "I just can't understand why something like this would happen...I can't wrap my mind around it...let's ask this secular progressive psychologist who has letters after her name (e.g. Ph.D., Ed.D., M.D., etc.) and hear what she has to say...I think I will scream (well, in fact, I already did scream while driving to my buddy on the phone!).
Let me try answering WHY this type of ugly, insane, and atrocious act occurs from a Biblical worldview:
1) Sin - I know it is an "outdated" idea that we are ALL sinful (Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.") and in desperate need of a savior especially when our humanist culture through the public educational system and popular media teaches that at the core mankind is basically good. We are being lied to! We are not "good" at heart...we have no where to look at for the source of this evil other than within.
2) Evolution - Our children (as are we) are being bombarded with the "fact" that each of us is the result of random chance and our heritage is a long line of inanimate objects, cells, amoebas, monkeys, etc. and that we are no better than anything else in creation (a.k.a. public school science classrooms, the extreme environmental movement, media, extreme animal rights activists, etc.). A famous atheist and People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) founder Ingrid Newkirk is quoted as saying "A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy." Yes!, really she did and actually believes it! We never hear that God created us in His image and the crown of His creation. He put His Holy Spirit in us as a sign of His love and special covenant with us. Even after original sin we are born with and still fight daily the desire to turn from Him and neglect Him He sent His son "while we were yet sinners" to save us from eternal damnation. We don't even hear much the child's phrase of "God don't make no junk!" anymore. Since this is where many have come to, it makes perfect sense for those who believe they have no purpose, value, or goals that matter would act out by killing others who are likewise unimportant, insignificant, and nuisances and then commit suicide. This is the logical conclusion to a world view with no basis in God.
3) Lack of personal responsibility - It is obvious that some of us are not raised in the best of homes with God-fearing parents nor are some blessed with a Bible believing church or godly friends to help keep us focused on God's will for our lives and accountable to stay on the straight and narrow. However, none of those challenges abnegate us from doing what is right. Each one of us will be held accountable for our sin and wrongdoing. Of course if God teaches one thing that the world around us says the opposite, "Oh, we need to find out what the killer went through in his life and understand him better." or "We need to see why his girlfriend broke up with him and try to make sure that doesn't happen again." Nowhere do you hear that it was evil and sinful what he did and let's redouble our efforts to teach our children God's word!
Another point here. Jesus did say in Mathew 15: 19 "From a GUN come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander." Oh, maybe that wasn't how it started and was, "Out of the heart comes evil thoughts..."
The problem we are facing is not GUNS, it's sinful PEOPLE! The solution is not GUN CONTROL through legislation it's PEOPLE CONTROL through God's word and His love for them!
4) Divorce - I know that this is a touchy subject because some of you are probably divorced but please know I am speaking the Truth in love. I am not judging those of you who had to deal with unfaithfulness or abandonment. Here I am speaking about the lies that our culture and the world around us are preaching about divorce. Our world tells us that divorce is no big deal and that children who come out of divorced families are just fine so don't worry about it if you want to leave the spouse that you committed to spend the rest of your life with for another person. We are told that if it gets tough or you just "fall out of love" with someone then go try to find "someone who will make you happy." IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU or making YOURself happy. It's about what the God who formed and fashioned us and died for us says will make us happy and that is to love Him, get to know Him on a personal basis, follow His ways, and cling to our Savior. God says "I hate divorce." (Malachi 2:16) and SO SHOULD WE!
5) Family Breakdown - In addition to divorce we also need to mention the general breakdown of the family in this country! For the first time in American history, more than 50% of all births are to single women. No fathers. No family. Again, contrary to popular culture telling us that one parent is sufficient to the needs of children, God established the family unit – both mothers and fathers – to love, nurture, discipline, and as Proverbs 22:6 says “Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it.” Something even many pastors will not remind us of these days is that in Scripture it clearly says that wives should submit to their husbands and husbands are likewise to love their wives “as Christ does the church” which by the way would mean dying for her as Jesus did! This is where we men must step forward…NOW! As a result of this healthy God-ordained relationship between one man and one woman for life, children see how their parents love and submit one to another and are much more willing to submit to their parents. These things are all part of the fingerprint of God's design and our culture tries hard to offer alternatively lifestyles that CANNOT be substituted for and WILL NOT be able to provide the same results.
Finally, in closing I have a question for you to ponder and meditate on - why all the outrage over 20 kindergarten children getting shot and killed and NOT the same level of guile, disgust, and hatred that each day in our country either a pill is taken or a knife is used to go into the womb and kill millions of babies each year?
A word of encouragement to those of you feeling like you are an alien here in our own beloved U. S. of A. because of the way things seem to be headed. Jesus prayed for us in John 17: 14 "I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world."
Christian friends, let us respond by saying: “We will go for you, Lord Jesus, and will let our light shine before men because we love our fellowman! Come with us!”
Trey
I have seen two references in the past couple days now to the 2nd Amendment only being applicable to muskets and the arms they had at the time of the framing of the Constitution. Yet another line of "logic" that I just cannot fathom ever reaching.
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I have no issue with strengthening the current system however no NEW firearms laws
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Heard something interesting today.
Reporter: "Why does anyone feel the need to own one of these assault rifles?"
Expert: "Some people think it's sexy or cool...others just think 'well, it's not illegal so i'll get one'".
HaHa, these people are brilliant.
Reporter: "Why does anyone feel the need to own one of these assault rifles?"
Expert: "Some people think it's sexy or cool...others just think 'well, it's not illegal so i'll get one'".
HaHa, these people are brilliant.
