US Congressman First "Ranger Truther?"

[Marauder06]

Yesterday Congressman Steve Russell of Oklahoma sent a letter to the Secretary of the Army John McHugh, demanding that he produce and send to him, all scores (peer evaluations, patrolling scores, spot reports etc.) for the two female Army Officers who graduated from the elite Army’s Ranger School last month. Is Congressman Russell the first Ranger “Truther?”

article

 

[DA SWO]

Yesterday Congressman Steve Russell of Oklahoma sent a letter to the Secretary of the Army John McHugh, demanding that he produce and send to him, all scores (peer evaluations, patrolling scores, spot reports etc.) for the two female Army Officers who graduated from the elite Army’s Ranger School last month. Is Congressman Russell the first Ranger “Truther?”

article

This wouldn't be necessary if management hadn't become so inept and corrupt in the last 20 years.

This is an opportunity for the Army to prove all the doubters wrong, it is also an opportunity for all the doubters to be proven correct.

 

[TLDR20]

The only people that care are people who seem to have very little in the way of a dog in the fight.

Every guy I know who was involved in any way with these women in RS have told me again and again, these women met the standard. Period. This dude seems like a "truther" to me.

 

[DA SWO]

The only people that care are people who seem to have very little in the way of a dog in the fight.

Every guy I know who was involved in any way with these women in RS have told me again and again, these women met the standard. Period. This dude seems like a "truther" to me.

Then give him the documents and shut all the truthers up.
Why is giving data so painful to liberals? who routinely demand such dats when conservatives are in charge.

 

[TLDR20]

Then give him the documents and shut all the truthers up.
Why is giving data so painful to liberals? who routinely demand such dats when conservatives are in charge.

Has anyone said they aren't going to give the documents?

 

[Gunz]

As an observation the truthers are staking claims on both sides of the issue: the congressman in the case of Ranger School, the SECNAV in the case of the Marines' gender-integrated infantry experiment. Either way, they don't believe the validity of the results and there must be a conspiracy somewhere. :wall:

 

[DA SWO]

As an observation the truthers are staking claims on both sides of the issue: the congressman in the case of Ranger School, the SECNAV in the case of the Marines' gender-integrated infantry experiment. Either way, they don't believe the validity of the results and there must be a conspiracy somewhere. :wall:

Or just a lack of integrity.

 

[x SF med]

Sometimes unbiased research is your worst enemy... it may not support either of the famously polar sides of an argument, but prove a 3rd as yet unseen option/solution/argument.

 

[AWP]

I think the dude's a truther but the Army needs to release the records and quickly. Look how long the "birther" controversy dragged on. The longer the Army takes, the more ammo it gives the naysayers. Release their stats along with averages for the class (APFT, road march, etc.)

@Centermass said the standards were met and I believe him. His info where Ranger School is concerned has always been correct.

Ultimately, this wouldn't be an issue if Army leadership were trusted. It has shown a proclivity for making PC decisions. Tattoos, uniforms, cases involving soldiers' actions in Afghanistan and Iraq...does anyone trust the DA? I doubt the rank and file trust their leadership.

This issue is too controversial and much, much larger than Ranger School. The Army should do the right thing and crush this before it goes any further.

 

[Gunz]

@Centermass said the standards were met and I believe him. His info where Ranger School is concerned has always been correct.

Yeah, I can't picture any Ranger Instructor giving an inch. And I would like to believe that the Marines were equally fastidious in grading the women in their gender-integrated infantry experiment. Obviously we're talking about two very different levels of course intensity and requirements for the female participants.

 

[Red Flag 1]

Yesterday Congressman Steve Russell of Oklahoma sent a letter to the Secretary of the Army John McHugh, demanding that he produce and send to him, all scores (peer evaluations, patrolling scores, spot reports etc.) for the two female Army Officers who graduated from the elite Army’s Ranger School last month. Is Congressman Russell the first Ranger “Truther?”

article

The Facebook article I just looked at said that Congressman Steve Russell has resigned. It was dated today @ 1745 EST .

 

[Ranger Psych]

I think the dude's a truther but the Army needs to release the records and quickly. Look how long the "birther" controversy dragged on. The longer the Army takes, the more ammo it gives the naysayers. Release their stats along with averages for the class (APFT, road march, etc.)

@Centermass said the standards were met and I believe him. His info where Ranger School is concerned has always been correct.

Ultimately, this wouldn't be an issue if Army leadership were trusted. It has shown a proclivity for making PC decisions. Tattoos, uniforms, cases involving soldiers' actions in Afghanistan and Iraq...does anyone trust the DA? I doubt the rank and file trust their leadership.

This issue is too controversial and much, much larger than Ranger School. The Army should do the right thing and crush this before it goes any further.

I trust the people that have said that they were squared away, but there's also another part of that statement: Verify. And no, I don't trust, and didn't trust, big Army leadership. Changing things for no fucking reason *ahemBERETCOUGH*, other than built in spite from Vietnam, as an example. The most major issue is that everywhere else OTHER than Ranger school (so far) they don't have the single standard solution. I sure as FUCK would not want a chick that scored over 80% on her PT test now trying to ruck alongside me. I would say that when I was in I could score that completely drunk but there's an issue with that statement: I run FASTER (and it's a tested/proven fact on Peden field) when intoxicated and at the buzzed but not BLUURGH level. I would have used it to my advantage, except that I'm pretty sure my PSG/PL+ would have blown enough gaskets to need depot level refitting.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Yeah, I can't picture any Ranger Instructor giving an inch. And I would like to believe that the Marines were equally fastidious in grading the women in their gender-integrated infantry experiment. Obviously we're talking about two very different levels of course intensity and requirements for the female participants.

One thing that I appreciate about this board is that when certain members here say they have knowledge about something, and relay it, I will take it as gospel with much more confidence that I will anything I hear on the news regarding the same topic. With that said:

- The female Rangers earned their tab
- The women Marines did not hold up

That is it. Nothing I see on the news, or from some blowhard politician or General (often one in the same) will change how I feel about those two topics until I see someone I respect here, tell me otherwise.

 

[Centermass]

The Facebook article I just looked at said that Congressman Steve Russell has resigned. It was dated today @ 1745 EST .

No, he didn't resign. He did however, make a statement on the resignation of John Boehner.

As for Congressman Russell, his assistant, Steve Foley, is spearheading the investigation and collecting any and all information concerning the request.

This whole thing came about as the result of a major dustup that created quite a split amongst those Rangers who believed the standards were met and those who believed there were those RI"s in the department, who knew better, but refused to speak up or come forward, for fear of reprisal that would place themselves in jeopardy or their careers. Enough spoke up that eventually got the attention of the Congressman's office.

Some of the reason lies with the RTB leadership. For instance, Col. Fivecoat's statement. For someone to say on one hand "The standards must be held" and in the same sentence, then goes on and says "The women must pass" wasn't exactly the smartest statement to make during a time such as this. If he had just stated "The standards are and will be maintained" and shut his mouth after that, it would have alleviated any doubt that the man is wishy washy.

The other is the perceived pressure at the highest levels from both Dempsey and Odierno, neither of whom, are tabbed.

I am not saying their is any merit to this investigation, just passing on points of view from others, Fivecoats observation, being one of mine.

In the end? I don't see much of anything coming out of this, once everything is said and done. I've been wrong before. Guess we'll wait and see.

 

[Red Flag 1]

No, he didn't resign. He did however, make a statement on the resignation of John Boehner.

As for Congressman Russell, his assistant, Steve Foley, is spearheading the investigation and collecting any and all information concerning the request.

This whole thing came about as the result of a major dustup that created quite a split amongst those Rangers who believed the standards were met and those who believed there were those RI"s in the department, who knew better, but refused to speak up or come forward, for fear of reprisal that would place themselves in jeopardy or their careers. Enough spoke up that eventually got the attention of the Congressman's office.

Some of the reason lies with the RTB leadership. For instance, Col. Fivecoat's statement. For someone to say on one hand "The standards must be held" and in the same sentence, then goes on and says "The women must pass" wasn't exactly the smartest statement to make during a time such as this. If he had just stated "The standards are and will be maintained" and shut his mouth after that, it would have alleviated any doubt that the man is wishy washy.

The other is the perceived pressure at the highest levels from both Dempsey and Odierno, neither of whom, are tabbed.

I am not saying their is any merit to this investigation, just passing on points of view from others, Fivecoats observation, being one of mine.

In the end? I don't see much of anything coming out of this, once everything is said and done. I've been wrong before. Guess we'll wait and see.

I wasn't able to find any other source that could confirm Russell's resignation. Perhaps a Congressional investigation can find the answer. There are so many ways this is being looked at, and spoken about, it really is troubling.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

This story pisses me off in so many ways, and it has NOTHING to do with the allegations that the women got special treatment - what fucking pisses me off is the irresponsibility to print it in the first place:

- An unnamed General said "one of them will pass"
- Multiple unnamed sources say "'Pressure was put on trainers' to make sure at least one woman graduated"
- The Army denied, denied, denied

I could have written this, based only on the B.S. that I've read online -

Fucking politicians - watching shows like House of Cards and Movies like Wag the Dog have made me way too jaded - or not.

First women to pass Ranger School 'were given extra training'

 

[TLDR20]

18X's are given extra training in order to do better at SFAS, is it any surprise that women are given extra training to do well at Ranger School? If anything this just shows that the Army willingly allows women to not be trained as well as men in all the other areas, and therefore ID'ed their own shortcomings. I would think it would be irresponsible to not send these women through a physical prep course prior to them attending.

@Ooh-Rah is your tab worth less? Why are you soo pissed?

 

[Ooh-Rah]

@TLDR20 -

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say, or more likely I was not as clear as I had intended. My frustration about the article is that there is 'nothing' there of any substance in regards to giving the women special treatment (the unnamed General for example who allegedly suggested that one of them will pass). As I stated in an earlier post within this thread, (three posts up), as far as I'm concerned, the women did it right, the cadre did it right, and unless someone here tells me different, that is good enough for me.

What the article that People wrote does, is give the conspiracy type folks more ammo to backup their claim that the women were essentially escorted thru Ranger school. And they make the claims without any actual facts, or known names to back up any of their claims - just conjecture.

Hope I did a better job expressing myself this time around.

 

[TLDR20]

@TLDR20 -

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say, or more likely I was not as clear as I had intended. My frustration about the article is that there is 'nothing' there of any substance in regards to giving the women special treatment (the unnamed General for example who allegedly suggested that one of them will pass). As I stated in an earlier post within this thread, (three posts up), as far as I'm concerned, the women did it right, the cadre did it right, and unless someone here tells me different, that is good enough for me.

What the article that People wrote does, is give the conspiracy type folks more ammo to backup their claim that the women were essentially escorted thru Ranger school. And they make the claims without any actual facts, or known names to back up any of their claims - just conjecture.

Hope I did a better job expressing myself this time around.

Yeah I totally misunderstood you. My bad.

 

[The Hate Ape]

@TLDR20
What the article that People wrote does, is give the conspiracy type folks more ammo to backup their claim that the women were essentially escorted thru Ranger school. And they make the claims without any actual facts, or known names to back up any of their claims - just conjecture.

Fact: Marine ITB female graduates were escorted
Source: Their instructors
Why: Command enforced (highest level)

People go off the handle because the hype is very real. They aren't conspiracy theorists, they are rightfully worried that our military is being weakened into bitch-assness by political agenda. Its a good thing that someone is there to annoy big-military into producing the data because it acts as an integrity tool. I'd rather use the reigns over the spurrs any day.

My stance is the standard, the current one or a more difficult one for all candidates. I'm relieved to read the two Ranger female candidates met said standards. The rest is for other Rangers to inquire/handle/whatever.


H/A