USMC changes fitness requirement for women

[LimaOscarSierraTango]

This might get interesting...

Female Marines soon will be required to perform pull-ups, just like male Marines do, as part of their annual physical fitness tests, the Marine Corps’ top general announced Tuesday.

The change takes effect Jan. 1, 2014, Gen. Jim Amos, the service’s commandant, alerted Marines in a force-wide message. Officials will phase in the change throughout the coming year to accommodate what is expected to be a significant adjustment.
A spokesman for the commandant declined to comment. However, the general's message makes clear that he expects this to be a success, and he has ordered all Marine units to add pull-ups training to their fitness programs during the coming year.

“Phase one,” Amos explains, “will serve as a transition period, and is intended to allow commanders and individual female Marines to adjust … training routines to prepare for implementation of the new requirements.”

The commandant’s message does not indicate why the change is being implemented, but the Marine Corps has spent nearly two years evaluating the restrictions it places on women, with an eye toward breaking down longstanding barriers where possible. Within the last year, for instance, officials have opened to female Marines dozens of jobs in tank and artillery units, among others previously the province of men only.

And although women are still prohibited from filling assignments whose primary mission is direct ground combat, officials made the historic move this past summer by enrolling two female Marines into the Corps’ Infantry Officer Course. Both ultimately washed out, and so far no volunteers have stepped forward for the course’s next iteration this winter.

Known to Marines as the PFT, the physical fitness test is one of two strength and endurance evaluations all personnel must pass each year. The other, called the Combat Fitness Test, features a host of drills Marines would be expected to perform on the battlefield.

As part of the PFT, all Marines do sit-ups and conduct a timed three-mile run. Additionally, men have been required to do pull-ups while women, viewed institutionally as having less inherent upper-body strength, have been required to perform what’s called the flexed-arm hang, hoisting themselves over the pull-up bar and holding the position for up to 70 seconds. Marines are rated based on their overall performance on each section of the test, with 300 making a perfect score.

During the coming year, as the service adjusts to the change, female Marines will have the option of doing pull-ups or the flexed-arm hang during their PFT, according to Amos’ message. But come 2014, women will be required to do at least three pull-ups to pass the PFT, with eight needed for a perfect score on that portion of the test.

Men must do three pull-ups to pass the test, with 20 required for a perfect score.

The flexed-arm hang will remain a part of the Corps’ Initial Strength Test for all female enlisted recruits and as part of the initial PFT required for female officer candidates, according to Amos’ message. However, starting in 2014, pull-ups will be a graduation requirement for boot camp and Officer Candidates School.

As Marine Corps Times reported last year senior officials have debated this idea for a while. In June 2011, following initial research at 12 installations across the Corps, the service’s physical readiness officer produced a detailed position paper calling for the test’s upper-body portion to be amended.

That study of 318 female Marines found that, on average, they could perform 1.63 pull-ups. More than 21 percent performed at least three, and 37 percent performed at least three when lower-body movement — a banned practice frequently known as “kip” — was allowed.

The discussion was scuttled late last year, with no indication it would be resumed. It’s not immediately clear why the Corps has changed course now.

While I like the fact that they are starting to equalize the PFT, I wonder if this is being done to lead to them opening up the direct combat arms MOSes to women in the near future.

SOURCE

 

[Hillclimb]

Most female marines I've met have ran 300 PFTs. I wish they'd tweak the scoring on the 3 mile run instead. I can understand them catching static on a movements that requires upper body strength, but maybe the cardiovascular portion should be an even playing field. Just my .02

 

[DA SWO]

ROR!

ACLU just filed a lawsuit demanding WM's get a shot at Combat Arms, here's your wish chicky-poo.

 

[Marauder06]

ROR!

ACLU just filed a lawsuit demanding WM's get a shot at Combat Arms, here's your wish chicky-poo.

I just read about that this morning.

 

[0699]

Most female marines I've met have ran 300 PFTs. I wish they'd tweak the scoring on the 3 mile run instead. I can understand them catching static on a movements that requires upper body strength, but maybe the cardiovascular portion should be an even playing field. Just my .02

I'd like to know where you've been meeting female Marines that score 300 PFTs. I knew very few that scored 300s; most were somewhere in the middle and a few were on the low end.

The flex-arm hang is no joke. It does test upper body muscles, just different ones. I think this is a step forward, but unless until the PFT is completely neutral there cannot be true equality.

 

[Hillclimb]

I'd like to know where you've been meeting female Marines that score 300 PFTs. I knew very few that scored 300s; most were somewhere in the middle and a few were on the low end.

Perhaps I was fortunate enough to only be exposed to 300PFT female Marines then. We had all the little bean pole track stars in supply. They only had to run 21:00 to max their 100 points on the 3 mile, and that's usually the brick wall between male Marines and their 300PFT.

until the PFT is completely neutral there cannot be true equality

+1

 

[104TN]

Obviously not a Marine, but IOBC (or the Marine equivalent - SOI maybe?) has been open to and soliciting women Marines for a while now.

To date only two have stepped up. One washed out day 1 the other another two weeks in. I can see the doors being opened but the service member still needs to be able to hack it.

 

[Spider6]

The June Sitrep from Military Times discussed the push to raise the standards on the PFT to help cut some "weaks links". However Manpower said changes could only be made after a decision on women in combat has been made.

http://www.militarytimes.com/multim...8,+2012/57707019001/57494968001/1695786038001

 

[Brian1/75]

Perhaps I was fortunate enough to only be exposed to 300PFT female Marines then. We had all the little bean pole track stars in supply. They only had to run 21:00 to max their 100 points on the 3 mile, and that's usually the brick wall between male Marines and their 300PFT.



+1

Isn't the male max 18:00? I always thought that would be incredibly tough to run.

 

[Hillclimb]

Isn't the male max 18:00? I always thought that would be incredibly tough to run.

Correct. Sorry, I only covered half my ground.

The female 100 point max is 21 minutes, and male 100 point max is 18:00. Thats where I feel the playing field should be equal.

 

[digrar]

The male and female 5000m records have nearly 2 minutes difference. So I don't have too many dramas with having separate max point times. Then on the other hand where it's a case of females coming into jobs like Infantry, I think they should have to meet the same standard and be scored accordingly.

 

[Etype]

The male and female 5000m records have nearly 2 minutes difference. So I don't have too many dramas with having separate max point times. Then on the other hand where it's a case of females coming into jobs like Infantry, I think they should have to meet the same standard and be scored accordingly.

The long standing argument has been this- make the scale exactly the same for both men and women, but make the men have to achieve a higher score than women. That way, you can objectively compare the two, but still grade them fairly by gender. If they are scored on the same scale, you will know exactly how much better a man is than a women (or vice versa), this is important with all these ideas of letting women fill combat jobs. You can't be saying, "oh, well she maxed her PT test so she's better than this guy who only scored XXX points," if they aren't scored the same way.

Facts-
- Women are slower than men.
- Women are weaker than men.

Women who want to serve in combat arms jobs need to acknowledge this before they even show up, we don't need liars on the battlefield.

 

[Brian1/75]

Your facts are true on average, but there are women definitely faster than me and probably quite a few stronger than me. With that said, reaching 60% on a Army PT test isn't exactly the cusp of strength and speed for either gender. I mean we require a young ass 17 year old combat soldier to run 2 miles in just under 16 minutes? 42 push-ups? Those certainly seem like bare minimums women can attend and I think even the 100% end is attainable for those that want it.

 

[Etype]

Your facts are true on average, but there are women definitely faster than me and probably quite a few stronger than me. With that said, reaching 60% on a Army PT test isn't exactly the cusp of strength and speed for either gender. I mean we require a young ass 17 year old combat soldier to run 2 miles in just under 16 minutes? 42 push-ups? Those certainly seem like bare minimums women can attend and I think even the 100% end is attainable for those that want it.

Oh geez, don't be the, "there are women faster than me," guy. Someone show me an objectively measured physical performance type sport/event where women outperform men. I'm talking any type of race, powerlifting, weightlifting, etc.

I believe the fact that people are so afraid to say that women are weaker and slower than men outlines the fact that there is a bias in place to see them succeed- why else is it so taboo to say so when all the official forums clearly state it is so?

 

[Brian1/75]

Yes on average or when talking about the Olympics. Soldiers aren't olympians and we don't require them to be. As I said, getting a sub 13:00 minute 2 miler is attainable by a good deal of women. There are female High School athletes doing that. This isn't about bias. It's about not making concessions for women that don't rate being in a combat role. As I said, 60% is easy and 100% is attainable. We don't need to make it okay for women to attain lower scores.

 

[Etype]

It's about not making concessions for women that don't rate being in a combat role.

That is really the key. I'm a big fan of their being a separate or additional PT test for combat jobs. Fortunately, SF and Rangers aren't going to have women shoe horned into our ranks for political reasons any time soon.

Most Marines I've worked with are in pretty good shape to begin. With women already having to do the flexed arm hang, and 1.6 pull ups being the average- 3 shouldn't be very hard to attain.

 

[Viper1]

I'd like to know where you've been meeting female Marines that score 300 PFTs. I knew very few that scored 300s; most were somewhere in the middle and a few were on the low end.

The flex-arm hang is no joke. It does test upper body muscles, just different ones. I think this is a step forward, but unless until the PFT is completely neutral there cannot be true equality.

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions on how a PFT can be completely neutral? I haven't seen it done and my opinion is that there is no such thing as a gender-neutral PT test.

I'm not trying to start a fight, just trying to get educated.

 

[0699]

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions on how a PFT can be completely neutral? I haven't seen it done and my opinion is that there is no such thing as a gender-neutral PT test.

I'm not trying to start a fight, just trying to get educated.

One test, one set of standards. If women want to compete with men, or vice versa, they should be graded the same. 3 mile run, max points requires it to be run in 18 minutes or less. Pull ups and crunches should be the same. AFAIK, we require female police officers & fire fighters to meet the same standard as their male peers.

I also think we should do away with the seperate age standards...

 

[Marauder06]

...

I also think we should do away with the separate age standards...

I agree. A rifle weights the same no matter if you are male or female, and no matter what age you are. A mile is the same distance for everyone. Having one standard gives both the Soldier and his or her leaders at all levels an instant snapshot of individual fitness without the false inflation of age or gender norming.

It would work like this: everyone takes the same test (like they do now) but with the same scoring standards. Then, that score can be compared against age and/or gender norms to produce a secondary rating. This shows two things- how a Soldier compares overall, and how he or she compares to his or her age/gender group.

Some possible secondary ratings, on a five-tiered scale going highest to lowest:
Excellence
High Pass
Pass
Below Standards
Fail

So, in this scheme, a middle-aged field grade officer who scores a 180 on the new scale still gets an "excellence" rating based on the secondary rating based on age and gender. On her officer evaluation report, it shows 180//Excellence. This ensures that neither she nor the commander of the unit confuse her physical abilities with that of the 20-year-old specialist who just scored a 300. In the regular monthly counseling given to him by his team leader, his PT stats are 300//Excellence. But Private Schmedlap, who is also 18 but only manages to eke out a 180 on his PT test, gets a 180//Pass, due to the marginal physical fitness for his age and gender. This shows he is physically as capable as the middle-aged female field grade, but he is far below his age/gender peer.

Or you can just forget the age/gender thing altogether.

 

[AMRUSMCR]

If you keep telling people what they can't do based on their gender, age, size, health etc what incentive do they have to even try? We're not competing at Olympic levels in the PFT so I don't see why it can't be normalized.

The job description doesn't change based on gender, so the physical fitness requirements shouldn't either. Hold women to the same standards and grading as the men. If you want to make it extra fair then add pull ups to the women AND add flex arm hang to the men. I think Marauder has the right of it.... the standard and the subset within the standard. Or maybe do it based on MOS?

Women's careers might be hurt in the interim while everything gets monkied out and for that I am truly sorry. The ones who make it through the initial cuts will have nutted up and done what needs to be done in the gym and on the road to stay in and the next generation of women Marines brought in are there with the expectation that they'll have to meet these standards, and will achieve them. Women fought for the right over the years to train and serve as Marines, and as such we need to fight for the right to stay in as Marines. We are no longer there to just "free a desk" so we can no longer cry foul when we're required to meet the same standards as men.

My experience as a woman in the Marine Corps showed me that if you asked for help from other Marines, you go it. No questions asked other than "What time's good for you?" You can't do a pull up? Ask someone to work with you. There is ALWAYS a Marine in any unit that will take the time to work with someone on their fitness.